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Being True To Yourself

with Christine Burchett

In this episode of Breaking, we sit down with Christine Burchett, Barrister & Solicitor at Burchett Law.

Christine acquired Burchett Law* (formerly known as Kearney Law Office) in October 2014. This acquisition provided growth and opportunity for Christine, while maintaining work-life balance. Christine’s legal focus is, like Neal’s, in Real Estate, Wills and Estates, and Business Law. Christine possesses years of legal and commercial transaction experience, gained within national and global companies, public service environments, and as an independent consultant.

Originally from Hawaii, Christine began her professional career as an electrical engineer with Boeing. Christine successfully transitioned to a career in law and after working abroad, moved to Ontario in 1998 where she leveraged her legal and engineering experience at a global aircraft manufacturing company by successfully facilitating and leading new and used aircraft sale, lease, acquisition and associated financing transactions world-wide.

Christine holds a Bachelor of Science Degree in Electrical Engineering from Gonzaga University and a law degree from Seattle University School of Law. Christine successfully pursued her license to practice law in Ontario and willingly traded a career in a large corporate environment for a more balanced life working in her own law firm near her home.

Christine is an enthusiastic snowmobiler, a voracious reader, enjoys the practice of Aikido, and is a life-long supporter of wildlife and wildlife habitat conservation efforts.


• Making the jump from a stable career in engineering to starting over with law school.

• Learning to balance career, money and relationships.

• The learning curves of becoming a business owner and asking for help when you need it.

• Why you need to stop focusing on what you can’t control.

• Recognizing the need for self-care and making time for “me time”

• And much more.


Find Christine Burchett at



Visit for all episodes of the show.


Muhammad Kermalli –

Triena McGuirk –


Min Woo Park & Diana Hong @ 6 Story –

Episode Transcript

*This transcription was made for your convenience. Please excuse any mistakes the automated service made.

Muhammad Kermalli: so welcome, Christie. Thank you for joining us today and sharing us, sharing with us, your journey of how to stay true to yourself. Yeah,

Christine Burchett: you’re welcome. That’s my part. Yeah.

Triena McGuirk: And thank you is lovely. I just met Christine this morning. So, um, just from the brief conversation before coming in today, I’m super excited, super excited about the conversation.

Triena McGuirk: I think, um, our journeys have parallels in some capacities, which is always interesting. Have that alignment. So I’m looking super forward to what comes of it.

Muhammad Kermalli: You know, it was really cool about the two of you guys when we were talking earlier, Y w. When you did some kind of a personality test or something, you came out to being gay, they said your, your, your career paths should be a social worker, which is what you are and you one day want it to be

Triena McGuirk: a, I was going to be a lawyer pregnant.

Triena McGuirk: I’m like, oh, snap. I can’t do a straight masters at this point. Just a masters.

Christine Burchett: Yeah. Okay. So just to put a perspective into that conversation, when I took the, the capacity test, I was already a lawyer. I couldn’t back out now and I’m not going back to school, so, oh my God, what do I do? So I just ignored the, the assessment.

Christine Burchett: Okay. That’s interesting.

Triena McGuirk: We’ll

Muhammad Kermalli: spend all this time coming up with an assessment.

Triena McGuirk: And what do you do with it?

Christine Burchett: I did. It’s true. Perfect.

Muhammad Kermalli: I love that.

Muhammad Kermalli: So thanks for coming today. You’re welcome. My

Christine Burchett: pleasure.

Muhammad Kermalli: And it’s like the new year and, uh, what is it with new years? Right. There’s always like, uh, you know, there’s like two schools of thought on that of, um, at the end of the year, we’re making people make resolutions to see how you feel, you see that response.

Muhammad Kermalli: So, so when’s the right time to make resolutions and stuff like that

Christine Burchett: before you do the thing. So then it’s already done. Yeah. That’s what I do. For this year. Yeah, I started it last year, so I didn’t have to do a resolution, um, and go through the, oh, I didn’t do it this year, so I’ll have to do it next year, I guess.

Muhammad Kermalli: So we’re always resolving, like we’re always making, you know, resolutions, but it’s weird how this is the time of the year. It’s like, you know, new beginnings. Right.

Triena McGuirk: I also find it such a weird time of the year to do it because I get it. I get from like a new year, a new kind of beginning. I got it from that perspective, but.

Triena McGuirk: It’s winter here, man.

Triena McGuirk: in the morning and I go to bed at nine 30. Like I’m not the most action oriented stage, like from a calendar perspective, right?

Christine Burchett: Yeah. I feel like

Triena McGuirk: spring Liz. More of a shift.

Christine Burchett: Yes. Yes. So it shouldn’t be new years. It should be new spring or new fall or why even have a date. That’s what I do it when you feel it calls because otherwise we’re procrastinators like me.

Christine Burchett: If it doesn’t work by January 2nd, I’ll just wait until next year. I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

Muhammad Kermalli: What point of time did you like. It’s to say, Hey, I want to go to law school cause you’re going through life. Right. And you’re having this, uh, I can just, I’m trying to imagine you, like, you’re no different today than I imagine you were ever magic.

Muhammad Kermalli: So early, early days before the professional aspiration to go to school, what was like your thing? Like what were you, what were your thoughts at that point in time?

Christine Burchett: Oh, I remember precisely when I decided to go to law school.

Muhammad Kermalli: Can you take me to the moment just before that then?

Christine Burchett: Because it’s so boring. I was with then boyfriend who had a roommate who was going to law school. And if this roommate can make it into law school, why can’t? I says I, so that’s what I did.

Christine Burchett: Okay. That’s it. That’s it. That’s it actually,

Muhammad Kermalli: did you stop? Did you stop to consider that, okay, the lawyers have this status or they make this much money or anything? There was no thought like that whatsoever.

Christine Burchett: No, Ash. It was interesting. You had to get a career and a job in a career and a job. Oh yeah. That’s why I say it’s not really mine boggling or anything. No, no. I stayed with my job because I worked full time while I went to law school. What were you doing? I was an engineer, electrical engineer. So I figured I’ll just do both.

Christine Burchett: That’s amazing. Why not? Just like I kid you not, why not you

Triena McGuirk: an engineer for before you made that switch? Oh, uh,

Christine Burchett: four years. Okay. Five

Muhammad Kermalli: and four and five.

Triena McGuirk: And then also to be a woman in engineering.

Christine Burchett: Yeah. Don’t forget that at that time, it was a good time though, to be a woman. Oh yeah. Very much so. Very much so.

Christine Burchett: So why not? Because at that time there was a very big push to ensure that minorities and women were hired as much as those who were not a minority nor woman. Yeah. So companies were hiring invisible minorities and women like crazy

Muhammad Kermalli: career path you’re in demand and you just met a person and you’re like, well, if that person can do, can be a lawyer,

Christine Burchett: uh, didn’t really per se, meet him, knew of him, knew his aspirations, knew what he was going to do.

Christine Burchett: And it was just kind of one of those. Wow. If he can do it. So can I, so I did.

Muhammad Kermalli: And then you made a risk.

Christine Burchett: That was the resolution and it wasn’t on January 1st. It was just, I think I’ll do it. So I just applied. That’s amazing. That’s actually the story of my life. There are no big lead ups to any. That’s perfect.

Triena McGuirk: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: And so when you jumped and you get you’re now in law school, uh, were there times where you’re going through law school and wondered, why am I doing this again? Oh yeah.

Triena McGuirk: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. So working

Christine Burchett: full-time and trying to go to law school full-time is not for everybody. I would never recommend it.

Christine Burchett: Well, it’s everything right. So I have a life. I was married at the time, so I had a private life, a school life and a professional life, and I was supposed to balance all those perfectly while giving a hundred percent to all of it perfectly. And that leads to its own crises. So yeah, there was, there were a couple of times where it wasn’t going to happen.

Christine Burchett: I don’t think this is going to work, but I never give up. So it was. A glitch. Remember how we’ve talked about the highs and lows? So it was just a glitch for me. I got through it and kept going.

Triena McGuirk: Yeah. It’s amazing what you can do when she gets through something. It is, it is Trevor ever do that. That was insane,

Christine Burchett: but it becomes the truth.

Christine Burchett: And when you tell people, when you get through it, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll be fine. And then you build that confidence no matter what, I’ll be fine.

Muhammad Kermalli: So these crises that you talk about coming up, did you see them coming? No.

Christine Burchett: No, not at all. Which made them even worse.

Muhammad Kermalli: Okay. When you say that they made them worse or better, because had you seen these from the beginning, do you think it might’ve deterred you from trying it in the first place?

Muhammad Kermalli: I don’t know. I

Christine Burchett: don’t know. That’s I’m

Muhammad Kermalli: don’t know. Sometimes people look at and go, that seems like it’s a lot it’s wisely. Right. It’s it’s too much on me.

Christine Burchett: I don’t know, because you can talk to people who have, who do know pitfalls and perils and, you know, you never know what you’re going to decide unless you’re faced with something.

Christine Burchett: Um, I really don’t have an answer to that. I don’t think it would have, because my nature is once I decide on something, I do it.

Triena McGuirk: Yeah. I’m very familiar with that. I’m

Christine Burchett: just saying

Muhammad Kermalli: like, it’s a ready fire aim. So I understand what I’m wondering about the, when you’re going through this, these crisis. I think it’s an interesting point to think on and to reflect for a lot of people, is that these crisis.

Muhammad Kermalli: A word that comes to mind is like, they kind of blindside you

Triena McGuirk: in a way, cause you didn’t see it coming.

Christine Burchett: Right? Like

Muhammad Kermalli: we do something.

Triena McGuirk: That’s why you have blind

Muhammad Kermalli: spots and you have people sometimes play the role of blind spots going, Christine, have you thought of this? Christine, come on. This is starting to happen or a voice inside our heads, whatever.

Muhammad Kermalli: Um, but there are sometimes signals and warnings that come, we might say we might be whatever, but they’re there. Um, so in your case, these signals, whether they were there or not, you didn’t see them, didn’t notice them. And then next thing you know, the crisis is parent. Yeah. Um, when the crisis first starts taking place and starts occurring and it’s now actualizing, um, there’s this feeling of kind of like, that’s why it’s a crisis.

Muhammad Kermalli: You’re overwhelmed. W, you know, again, since we’re on the theme of resolutions today, so what’s the resolution at that point in time, like, um, how do you decide which part of the crisis you’re going to tackle? How did you do it? I do it. Yeah. So you talked about balancing relationships, work and studying.

Muhammad Kermalli: That’s not uncommon out there that’s that happens a lot. Um, so

Triena McGuirk: how did you tackle level of a workload? It’s not,

Christine Burchett: it’s not, and I eat it right. You’re right. I catch it normal for me. Uh, a lot of people normal for a lot of people. Um, how did I deal with, um, so, so perhaps deemed maybe a bit a personality overachiever person.

Christine Burchett: So it never occurred to me that I wouldn’t would be impacted. I did well, it was things came easy. Um, I enjoyed learning. So to me, something that didn’t work, something that would be deemed to failure, just never, it didn’t enter in my psyche, not, not at all. And so for individual like that, at least for me, when it hits, you don’t know what to do, even though I had a very supportive mom, you just don’t know, no one teaches you this stuff.

Christine Burchett: Right. Um, so it’s important that people do fail. So they understand how it is that they can recover from it. And I just happened to encounter mine older. Yeah. I wished it would have been sooner cause I probably would have been a little more, but yeah. So it was a matter of finally admitting that I wasn’t perfect and that was hard.

Christine Burchett: It was really hard. And I ended up through

Triena McGuirk: this whole personality around achievement and you get so

Christine Burchett: many rewards from it. What if you’re not perfect? No one will love you. No one will talk to you. You won’t have friends, so it’s a whole huge, horrible donuts borrower. And then

Triena McGuirk: you’re the alpha personality.

Triena McGuirk: So now you have to figure it out

Christine Burchett: and fix it. Yeah. Yeah. So needless to say, um, I talked to my mom who I always want to be like my mom, when I grow up, she’s the most amazing person ever. Uh, and she was the first to say, It’s okay to be imperfect. I love you. This is very short version. Um, I think you might want to talk to somebody and I’m going to law school and working full time.

Christine Burchett: I have no money to talk to anybody or time, but all universities and colleges typically have counselors on staff, so they’re free. So I went and saw one and I had I’m sure it was probably a 45 minute chat. Don’t ask me what we talked about, but I came away with one piece of advice that has stood me in good stead the entirety of my career since then, which is, you know, maybe you should focus your time and efforts on things you can control versus the things you can’t

Muhammad Kermalli: focus your time on effort on things you can’t hand

Christine Burchett: control, not the things you can’t.

Christine Burchett: And that’s the one. Stuck with me throughout my, well, even to now. So people get caught up trying to control everything and it

Triena McGuirk: came so much anxiety. Oh yeah. Oh

Christine Burchett: yeah. Oh yeah. Conflict. Yeah. Right? Yep. So I always go back to that when you asked, how did I deal with, I go back to, what can I control this? If I’m reaching a great, no, I can’t.

Christine Burchett: What can I, I can do this. So there you go. It’s hard though. Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: Yeah. The ends of the crisis. When you just think

Christine Burchett: of that. No, no, no. It just brings you back to more of a more balanced approach versus way down here going, I I’ll never get out of this. Oh my God. Everyone will hate me. Um, everyone will think I’m going to failure.

Christine Burchett: Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: Um, Yeah. And at that point in time, it’s starting to sink in that that’s a possibility. Maybe you feel like you’re already there. It’s just a matter of time now, before these,

Christine Burchett: that

Muhammad Kermalli: there’s this helplessness. So you start focusing on the things that you can’t control. So what did you realize that you could control?

Triena McGuirk: This is a while ago. yeah. So you can control how you responded, but she

Christine Burchett: spoke to it’s. Yeah, it’s what I do. So I had to step back probably 50 million feet and almost starting again. What am I doing here? Um, is it. Uh, what am I doing? What what’s the problem? And I had all these things that were problem, but most of it was out here.

Christine Burchett: And what, what about me? Oh, um, probably it was, I was so focused out here. I didn’t spend any time here. What do you mean by that? So I was so focused on all the external problems and issues that I thought I had to take care of. I E I’m not spending enough time at home. Um, I’m not working enough hours. I’m not making enough money.

Christine Burchett: What about my mom? Oh, I’m failing. Oh my God. Yeah. All external. Um, I’m going to flunk. This is what happened. They are very much so no

Triena McGuirk: actual, no things happening. No. What if this happens?

Christine Burchett: So it’s back to okay. You place on yourself, both. It’s all of that, right? Uh, the internal stuff. Well, I’m smart. Okay. Looks like I might need to study more or maybe I just need fewer distractions.

Christine Burchett: And so it’s just, it’s just baby steps to bring me back to a level that I’m controlling me and my responses versus everything else, uh, impacting me and I’m letting it right. I mean, you have to let things happen anyway, because that’s the world. Um, but influencing me so that I forget me and I’m just looking at everything outside of me and it’s a horrible downward spiral.

Christine Burchett: And before you know it right, and a lot of people do this, they allow the outside world to dictate them. Instead of you dictating your own life and influencing what happens around you. I can’t control what’s outside. I control me. So that’s what I do.

Muhammad Kermalli: So that’s you went back to simply, like you said, controlling your responses, just your thoughts.

Muhammad Kermalli: They wish you haven’t even gone to the action part yet.

Muhammad Kermalli: there’s like a shoe that I just

Triena McGuirk: got to,

Triena McGuirk: going to say it was, oh, is it about your, like when you had all the things like the expectations you put on yourself? And so I think that that’s a good exercise because I feel like we’re so hardwired from the way we’re socialized, just to look at. The negative side of a situation to, to be able to hypothesize that how we’re going to respond for any possible outcome.

Triena McGuirk: And so when our brain naturally goes there, I feel it’s such a great tool. And you did this as you, you kind of, you flip the switch on it and when you flip the switch on it, you’re like, okay. Um, and I know I felt this one and I’m going to point this one out is you said I’m not spending enough time at home.

Triena McGuirk: Right? So I’ve always struggled with that being a parent and working and, and so forth. And so what I, you could, we could switch the narrative to is, um, I’m not spending enough time at home. I’m going to dedicate this time and be a hundred percent present at home and I can uncreate all

Christine Burchett: circumstances, but I’m going here’s wedding present and be

Triena McGuirk: present with every negative thing that we tell ourselves.

Triena McGuirk: We

Christine Burchett: flip the switch on it very much.

Muhammad Kermalli: So here’s the thing that, um, I also want to think through and talk through it. Whenever there’s this crisis moment that’s coming. Right. It’s it’s been on its way now for a while before it shows itself or that we realize it. Yeah. So there’s usually there’s this, um, I feel like I want to use the word, like it gains momentum, uh, because at first it’s like, we don’t listen.

Muhammad Kermalli: We don’t hear. And then it gains more. And by the time we catch wind of it, it started to accelerate. If you will. Now, uh, after we notice it, it’s still accelerating. So the task becomes like to push back against it. It feels like there’s this deceleration that has to take place. And even though there’s a deceleration of the crisis, it’s still growing, right.

Muhammad Kermalli: It’s decelerating, but it’s still growing. It’s still moving in that direction. Then comes the turn, then comes the rebound if you want to call it. So during this time we’re thinking, and while we’re thinking, we’re gathering these great thoughts, which everyone says is the beginning of it. And then still comes to the action.

Muhammad Kermalli: But the results of this has yet to be noted. Um, so you, you remember that parking spots and now you start acting right. And you start picking one. Um, how did you specifically like pick it? Like, what did you actually do? Do you change a schedule? Did you reshift course load? Do you do something at work? What actually did you do?

Muhammad Kermalli: So after your thoughts, what were your actions?

Christine Burchett: Okay. Wow. Hey, you’re asking me to remember,

Christine Burchett: um, I’m thinking, so I’m thinking what I do. Um, so the crisis occurred and it’s actually fairly common for law students after my first year of law school. Um, and I chose not to work the first year, the first semester, which was as I found out, not a good thing for me. So, um, my. My trigger was money. So I, I didn’t have grants.

Christine Burchett: I didn’t have rich parents. I didn’t have anything but me, myself and I, and I was fine with that. I already made it through university. I could make it through law school. Uh, but I couldn’t make it through law school working part time. So I made the decision to go back into work. Full-time the engineering firm.

Christine Burchett: Yeah. So that was second semester, but it all has an impact. Right. So now I’m full-time and I’m carrying 18 credit course load. And how do I do that? Yeah. Yeah. And how do I do that? And that was, I had to figure that out, but going back to work full time to ensure I had the money to continue, my education was step one and then I had to figure out how do I.

Christine Burchett: My time to ensure I have a enough to study as well as work. And yes, my relationship at that time suffered. Yeah. It didn’t work. Yeah. Um, so something gave, and it is what it is. Uh, but once I did the full time, I’m one of those that when I’m pushed, I perform better because it forces me to be organized.

Christine Burchett: Okay. Too much free time on my hands. And I don’t procrastinate. I did mention that first. Yeah. Yeah. But it took, I had to deal with money first. And if people ignore that or think it’ll it’ll happen, it’ll be fine. Or I’ll just do a part-time at might work, but it didn’t work for me. Interesting. And I had to learn it though.

Christine Burchett: I didn’t realize that that would be the effect, not at all.

Muhammad Kermalli: Is this called, like the fight or flight response? Am I right about that? Yeah, because then a lot of people sometimes turn around on this and just stop everything. Right. And they just.

Christine Burchett: I’m not, I, I never give up. I could not. So right. It goes back to that, that my boyfriend’s friend and it’s also,

Triena McGuirk: she’s very orderly.

Triena McGuirk: She’s very assertive. She’s very

Triena McGuirk: connotation. And then you have like, um, like conscientiousness. So you’re probably going to be super high in conscientious. So w when you have a task and you’re pushed up against the wall, I think personality is part of it for her. Right? I think this is intrinsically. Who, who she is like, this is just how you approach things and that’s how you operate.

Triena McGuirk: You’ve probably done it

Christine Burchett: your whole well it’s, you have to be outside looking in, right. That’s why I have to say her going. Hmm. What did I do? Uh, I just did whatever I need to. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Exactly. Because it had to be done. Yeah. Um, part of that I’ll put on my mom because that’s what she was like too.

Christine Burchett: And she’s amazing. So you, you ingest that. Right. But remember I mentioned that friend, it was only if he could get through law school, there’s no way I’m failing this. There’s no way,

Muhammad Kermalli: no way at the moment at that time going, I remember having this thought that I there’s no way I’m going to fail or was it like, oh my.

Muhammad Kermalli: Uh, actually, he could do something that I couldn’t. Or did you look back? Did you use that moment again? Reflection? I don’t know if I

Christine Burchett: did or no, I’m pretty sure though. There’s no way that I’m going to

Triena McGuirk: lose

Christine Burchett: whatever you want. Yeah, yeah,

Triena McGuirk: yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. In a situation to find something that motivates you. I can just see

Muhammad Kermalli: that, like, I’ve been losing to this guy.

Christine Burchett: this guy never heard that. Oh,

Muhammad Kermalli: I do it repeatedly. But, uh, and then that’s like, okay, get up no matter what you gotta do right now. Okay. I just, I thought that I didn’t know this.

Muhammad Kermalli: So I was like, well, I’ll see you’re dealing with this. It’s just from that point in time. It’s why I say this is because a lot of, not just everybody, but lawyers go through is a lot. Cause the, the, the amount of effort you have to put into BYU, which is one of the reasons I opted for life.

Muhammad Kermalli: there’s this, there’s this thing, you know, the status, the money that can come with it. And also the level of work and the impact you’re having. You know that those are good things. There’s good reasons to

Triena McGuirk: helping people to. Right. So that’s a helping profession.

Muhammad Kermalli: Honestly, when I was thinking about it, I would save on the status.

Muhammad Kermalli: Yeah. Be honest about it. That’s what I was thinking. Um, and I could just see the name like Karmali lawyer gives me one day. So, but then I didn’t do it. I, I stepped away from that 18 credit with the word I didn’t do it. You did. And I admire that so much about all the lawyers that stick with it and, and not just lawyers, but anybody who goes through this.

Muhammad Kermalli: So, but for lawyers, that’s the early days of the condition that takes places like you gotta do what you gotta do, whether whatever your feelings are right now, shut it out. You see how, like it starts happening to people at an early age and the early phase of this conditioning shut out, whatever you’re feeling.

Muhammad Kermalli: You gotta do this now. Yeah. Okay. I think that that’s an interesting like point where it starts happening right. In law school. And it’s not like they try to make law school easy either. No, it’s not. It’s not meant to be easy. Not at all because it’s trying, they’re also trying to prepare you for like, you know, practice itself, which so many lawyers come out of, uh, school still when they finally hit now practice.

Muhammad Kermalli: Um, and what is it called? Articling that they go through and you talk to you’ve had probably articling students. You’ve been an articling student. And when you get to that point, no, you never went through that. Are you kidding me? How did you, okay, so swim,

Christine Burchett: right? United States. They don’t have articling

Muhammad Kermalli: jobs, so that’s even in some ways crazy.

Muhammad Kermalli: Right. So you get in there

Triena McGuirk: even a buffer. Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: Um, did it ever occur to you when you first went in there that you looked at it. Wow, this is not what I expected. Or were you expecting exactly what you ran into?

Christine Burchett: I was neither. It was neither. So the path I thought I might take didn’t happen and I’m glad I didn’t.

Christine Burchett: It was more of a, oh, well, it makes sense. But not really being a patent lawyer. Yeah, no, because I was in aerospace as an engineer, so, right. Yeah. Yeah. It was more of a, it made sense. It was a, that should be the path. Like you should be a doctor, but you don’t want to be, but okay. And no, so instead, um, again, it was just a

Triena McGuirk: fluke,

Christine Burchett: it’s a fluke.

Christine Burchett: It was, uh, I, um,

Christine Burchett: I was working as an engineer waiting to hear if there was room for me in their intellectual property group. And I got a phone call, um, saying that in Okanogan county, the prosecutor is looking for another, um, prosecutor and associate would I be interested? Oh, I don’t know. I guess I sure. So I had an interview I had to travel to, and then I was told by my current company, no, there’s no room.

Christine Burchett: There are downsizing. So I went and interviewed, met a very nice gentleman. He was awesome. He, his father was in the air force four or five star general. He was an air force. Um, uh, armed forces veteran had done lots of stuff and decided to be a lawyer. And so we chatted really not about law stuff, more about other stuff, because I was an aerospace and he loved aircraft.

Christine Burchett: I left and as I was starting my car, he came out to the parking lot and he goes, this is how we do it in Oakland, on the county. You’re hired. If you want the job, I had no experience as zero, zero. As in zero, I wasn’t an electrical engineer. I did nothing in law school, but work full time. So that’s how I got hired.

Christine Burchett: And that’s how I started my career in law. It was sink or swim, and I had an amazing first boss and amazing mentor. He goes, you’re smart enough to figure this out. I’ll teach you, but you’re not going to need a lot. So that was just, yeah, that’s amazing. That’s it

Triena McGuirk: really, that’s how I

Muhammad Kermalli: started. Um, do you notice that now as a lawyer and this is going now forward to like how law and the industry works today?

Muhammad Kermalli: Um, that’s not the typical story I hear from a law. It’s not,

Christine Burchett: it’s not, it’s a real

Triena McGuirk: grind to get in. Oh. And don’t get me wrong. You know,

Christine Burchett: that status and make a million dollars. Absolutely.

Triena McGuirk: I worked for the government.

Christine Burchett: Yeah. Yeah. Did I, did I take a pay cut? When I, I think I did. I took a pay cut from engineering to be, yeah.

Christine Burchett: I took a pay cut because I wanted the experience and I thought it’d be cool. It was criminal law. I loved it. That was one of my favorite subjects.

Muhammad Kermalli: And you enjoyed it enough to continue down this path. Uh, you keep going and now you’re coming to a point here where you decide one day to start your own law

Christine Burchett: firm.

Christine Burchett: Yeah,

Muhammad Kermalli: sure. So engineered that’s a lawyer. That’s a different now like business owner. There’s a difference. Just

Triena McGuirk: so what’s the

Christine Burchett: timeline

Triena McGuirk: between, like from being, uh, starting your, um, being a lawyer start Loring to developing your own firm? What was, how long were you in practice

Christine Burchett: before you went out on your own?

Triena McGuirk: She’s like, oh my gosh. I don’t know.

Muhammad Kermalli: Some of

Triena McGuirk: the years, lots of years

Christine Burchett: I had different lives between my first law job and my furniture industry as well. Right. Yeah. What does that

Triena McGuirk: mean?

Muhammad Kermalli: Going to oh, like in terms of a different world, like you would purchase, was it acquisition? Or

Christine Burchett: I went back into aerospace and contract and then, yeah.

Christine Burchett: As like a consultant. No, I worked in the contracts group and I bought and sold airplanes and I manage credit facilities and I leased aircraft. So it

Muhammad Kermalli: wasn’t be a lawyer to be a lawyer. It was cause I could do it. And then it became, you got the job just like here’s what’s next. It wasn’t like this. There wasn’t no package.

Christine Burchett: So it wasn’t kidding. When I said just, I just would do something. Yeah. So opportunity would come up and I do it. So I did that. I worked in, um, property facility management. I worked for oil and gas. I worked for, um, um, a large electrical, electronic manufacturing firm. Uh, I went back to, where did I end up with?

Christine Burchett: Um, oh, um, a large, um, professional engineering

Muhammad Kermalli: firm. And then like you were losing ground on being a lawyer, cause these are all experiences to you and today they all add up.

Christine Burchett: So don’t forget, I didn’t start out my career to be a lawyer. So my life is not being a lawyer. My life is, uh, Um, package of a whole bunch of different things that I’ve done.

Muhammad Kermalli: I find that interesting because you’ve done it all the way to that point. But when, you know, when you start a law firm right now, it’s kind of like call it a different level of commitment. Now, you know, this is not something you start in and decide, Hey, well,

Christine Burchett: you shouldn’t .

Triena McGuirk: Yeah, yeah,

Muhammad Kermalli: yeah. Now you’re like making a real, like, you’re locking yourself into this.

Muhammad Kermalli: That’s a difference between who you were before and now who you’re looking to be. W was that because you had, what was your thought that they kind of said, okay, now I want to start my own law firm and I want him, and he started envisioning or manifesting that.

Christine Burchett: So, um, It was, I don’t feel I’ve locked myself into anything.

Christine Burchett: It was, this is the next, my next adventure. So, um, it started practically because the company that I was working at moved their headquarters to the United States. So I was going to be out of a job in a year and a half. And I just happened to be going through my credentials to be a lawyer here in Ontario.

Christine Burchett: So it just moved my timeline up to have my own law firms sooner rather than later is all I did. Um, so down the path I go to be my own law firm and, uh, the next adventure was well. Okay. So I’ve done a lot. And a lot of different industries taking a lot on a lot of different roles. Let’s see if I can actually run a business.

Christine Burchett: So that’s my next adventure. I just not being a lawyer. That is not my focus. I am a lawyer, I’m running a business and my service is as a lawyer, I could just as well be a consultant in engineering or in sourcing or any of the other things that I’ve done in my life. But I liked this one.

Muhammad Kermalli: Never went to business school.

Muhammad Kermalli: Nope.

Christine Burchett: Nope. The school of hard knocks. Yeah. Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: As you start this law firm and you start getting into it again, uh, when you started it, did you ever run into the same sort of experiences as you did earlier call it like the crises that could come up, uh, ever had the same feelings? It might not have had to be a crisis would be like, uh, I didn’t see that coming.

Muhammad Kermalli: I wasn’t prepared for this.

Christine Burchett: Failed that I’m actually very well-prepared to understand how business works and what is necessary to make it function well and do well. Sure. But you’re never prepared to tackle issue on top of issue on top of issue when it lands on your plate that, you know, what do I do? So, um, it revolves around people and staff.

Christine Burchett: So I’m successful because I have wonderful staff without them I’d struggle. And so the, the challenges for me and I pretty sure it’s the same for most lawyers and law firms do is, oh my God, somebody’s quitting. What do I do now? Or what do I do? Yeah. Oh, it’s never good. Never good. What do I do? Or I have a minute.

Christine Burchett: Who’s just not a good fit. What do I do? So you may have experienced, okay. I have in the past of what do you do, but it never gets easy. It’s never easy and never, never. And then you have things like COVID happen, which, okay. What do I do well thinking is I’ve had to deal with not COVID, but things that are similar in the past where something comes crashing down and what do you, how do you get through the next six months, which are going to be really difficult?

Christine Burchett: And in this case, it was really difficult because I may not have people, what do I do? How do I stay open? How do I take care of my clients? So it’s, it comes back to two people. And how do I ensure. I have the people so I can bring in the money so I can keep the people so I can help the other people that I’m there to help.

Muhammad Kermalli: So I hear you talking about all of these things that you got to focus on and take care of. And it’s so common to hear the same thing, strong lawyers about their clients and the firms or professionals about their practice and their patients or their clients, business owners and their clients and their staff.

Muhammad Kermalli: But in all of that, what you almost didn’t hear, and I didn’t hear this as it was taking care of Christine. And then sometimes as a result of that, and we were just talking earlier about how long now you’ve been at this and it’s been great. You’ve done amazing. I’ve seen you from the very beginning of it and it wasn’t just, you started affirmed.

Muhammad Kermalli: Like there was an acquisition phase, uh,

Christine Burchett: wired an existing firm. So it’s


Muhammad Kermalli: that then you start and some people say, oh, so you got it already in working conditions

Triena McGuirk: because different set of problems. Well, not only that

Triena McGuirk: each one comes already established,

Muhammad Kermalli: there’s a pinch somewhere. And so, you know, there’s a money question. There’s a time question. So in all of this, she’s got this going on because you sometimes have to take a loan or you have to get it from your savings. And that’s a real pressure that we face. And so she went through, you’re going through all of this, your business, your staff COVID.

Muhammad Kermalli: And now in there once a day, here you say Christine, no ones right now when you were describing it. Yeah. And I was wondering if you would say it or not, and there, it was, your concern is so much for others and your staff and your clients. It’s just our nature. It’s your nature. At some point in time, did you start realizing that, hold on, was there a message come to, Christine’s not being looked after and I got to look after Christine, so I want to get to that kind of, cause that’s so important for people to hear and understand.

Muhammad Kermalli: So, so many people make that mistake and so many yes,

Christine Burchett: yes. It’s it’s do what I say, not what I do. Um, so as you’re talking, it brings me right back to the crises that I had when I was in law school, which is it had built up and I just deny, deny, deny, deny. There’s everything’s fine. It’s going to be fine. It will be fine.

Christine Burchett: I I’m sure it’ll be fine. It might not be so fine. So

Christine Burchett: oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, I can’t say that I’m any better at identifying when things might be coming to a crisis for me, they might usually. I’m pretty sure. No. Yeah, yeah. It just shows. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I was kind of doing sort of trying to include me time, but then other things would interfere, right.

Christine Burchett: Um, this wasn’t an emergency or this deal came crashing down, or I had to do this other thing because it was due yesterday and or somebody died, Hey, Tommy me died and they needed help right away. So all these things pull at your time. And, um, my clients and my people come first in sodas, my husband. So I have lots of firsts.

Christine Burchett: Um, it was a real slow process. So to answer your question, it just, there was no one, I don’t have an it, cause I don’t have

Muhammad Kermalli: here at Christine because you know, what, what makes you special to me is that you’ve always been great at handling that as far as I’m concerned. Yeah. Because one thing I would be talking to her and uh, Oh, how you doing?

Muhammad Kermalli: Yeah. I’m going snowmobiling. Her thing is she loves to go snowmobiling and being outdoors and me and Ben are, we’re going snowmobiling. I’m like, look at that. You keep doing the things that are fun. You take care of yourself. Yeah. Over the years, as, as she started the firm, you know, needs and then who plans for COVID it happens.

Muhammad Kermalli: And I was like, there’s the next wave and snowmobiling or not. And you’re like, and somebody dies. And yeah. So all of that starts to getting, it does get neglected. And I’m not saying, I hope you did that because it’s a true thing. People do do it. And you don’t see it when it first happens. It’s like, oh, I’ll do it later.

Muhammad Kermalli: I’ll catch up to

Christine Burchett: that. I’ll make time. Yeah.

Triena McGuirk: What we forget is when we don’t nurture

Christine Burchett: that part,

Triena McGuirk: all the things that were going so diligently to take care of actually fall apart when we fall apart. So it’s just, it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we. Yeah. Self-care and

Christine Burchett: wellbeing, you think you’re doing, or you do, do you do a little bit of this and to your point of view, a little bit of that.

Christine Burchett: And then something upsets that I

Triena McGuirk: don’t know sure. What everyone else’s experiences, but I always was kind of made to feel guilty if you were doing something leisurely or if you took a nap.

Christine Burchett: Yeah.

Triena McGuirk: Yeah. This is productive, but I feel if you need enough and you’re taking it out, that’s that’s productive.

Christine Burchett: Well, it’s always the, why aren’t you working on the weekends?

Christine Burchett: Yes. So one of the things I actually knew I did is no one has my personal cell phone and I do not work on the weekends unless there’s a weird upset, but the weekends and I had to learn that the weekends are for my family. Right. Um, and it’s still that today, weekends. Um, because I would, oh, I’ll just bring this one thing home, but see that’s how it starts.

Christine Burchett: And then it’s two things and then I catch myself principles. It still happens. It still happens. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So, Nope. Stop, stop backup. It can wait. It can all wait. And no one likes to hear that. And clients don’t really want to hear that, but, uh, as I put my clients first, but lawyers are people too, so lawyers need their families too.

Christine Burchett: So

Muhammad Kermalli: that’s interesting thing because you remember when we went back, it was like, oh, Focus Christine, that first crisis focus. It doesn’t matter how you feel right now. Go get this done and you see how it comes back again, focus, focus, focus, and that laser focus that people talk about. It’s so focused on this one point that the rest of the balance, forget about these other things.

Muhammad Kermalli: So that actually happens in spite of oh

Christine Burchett: yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s why I say I’m not any better today to recognize when I’m coming up to crises. It just happens. And then I deal with it. So it wasn’t anything in particular, it was slow moving. COVID graces. That happened to a lot of people who all of a sudden had nowhere to go and nothing to do and stuff, and just sat and ate.

Christine Burchett: And for someone like me, who I do like to be active, there was nowhere to go. Nothing to do. Nothing was open. Uh, despite other things. Um, yeah, so, uh, for all the women out there, I’ve had to go shopping to refill my wardrobe, to buy clothes that fit. And that kind of knocked on my door. And I have another woman who works with me and she’s been personal training for years and looks amazing and continued through COVID and then her person stopped because they didn’t want to do it anymore.

Christine Burchett: So she found a new place, like one minute around the corner. So, you know, all those excuses that I had, I can’t do it. It’s too far. It takes too much time. I don’t want to go backwards and then travel all the way home. I’ll went out the door cause she found this place and I tried it and I liked it and I stuck with it.

Christine Burchett: And. I love it. So it shifted on its own. It was a fluke.

Muhammad Kermalli: Oh, you say that? I do.

Triena McGuirk: So when did you recognize something? You put it out there and new universe always provides it’s a flute, but I

Christine Burchett: think when you,

Triena McGuirk: when you

Christine Burchett: bring

Triena McGuirk: awareness,

Muhammad Kermalli: that person was always there.

Triena McGuirk: was always there. Yeah. It was a choice.

Christine Burchett: Yes. Yes. I didn’t think I needed to choose it. Yeah. Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: Did you have a choice before you didn’t choose it before? I didn’t

Christine Burchett: chose other things. I did. Did great intention. You, yeah. That it, there wasn’t an issue building and I don’t know that there is or is, or was, or wasn’t is there isn’t a looking back?

Christine Burchett: Yeah, there was, uh, but very slow in. Uh, and I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m falling. I am doing stuff. I’m fine. I’m fine. Maybe I’m not so fine. I think I’ll try something else. And so,

Muhammad Kermalli: so there it is like doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. You’re like,

Triena McGuirk: yeah. I to do

Muhammad Kermalli: something different.

Muhammad Kermalli: Yeah. Yeah. And you were like anything different and my choices are also very limited at doing coding.

Triena McGuirk: What you can

Muhammad Kermalli: do when it’s locked down the next day. It’s not. Yeah. And then you gotta make room inside of your schedule as a professional. I don’t think the law industry really got a break from the workload.

Muhammad Kermalli: It, so your workload, not only didn’t change, maybe had actually increased at some point in time. Yep. So something has to give, so what gave,

Christine Burchett: I hired two more people

Muhammad Kermalli: gave up making more money because when you hire more people, it’s a cost. It’s a risk, right? Like, and you got to train them and then.

Christine Burchett: Yes, and no, don’t forget.

Christine Burchett: Right. So, um, I understood that there was going to come a time. So I started planning for bringing more people in because I had more than enough work when I made full-time somebody who’d been working for me for summers. And I brought in a person part-time, but we had enough work. I hired her full-time. So that was two years ago, right after COVID started.

Christine Burchett: So that was intentional to ensure I had enough people to carry on with the increase in workload. And it wasn’t, it wasn’t to make more money. So, right. So to reset the expectation, it was not me trying to make more money. It was me ensuring I had enough bodies and people to take care of the clients that I had.

Christine Burchett: And there were going to be more because it creates

Muhammad Kermalli: cost, just went up.

Christine Burchett: But again, that wasn’t my driving force. It was to ensure I had enough people to take, because if I have enough people that are good. The clients will come in and the funds will be there to take care of the business, including me.

Christine Burchett: That’s all I need. That’s not in theory in reality, in reality. That’s my reality. And I’ll stick by it. No, you have to theorize that

Muhammad Kermalli: before it happened. I did.

Christine Burchett: I did.

Muhammad Kermalli: I did. There’s stories where people hire and then it doesn’t go so well. I,

Christine Burchett: yeah, and I, I, you can be as careful as you want, but you never know it is a catch.

Christine Burchett: It is, um, a double-edged sword. It is. Yeah. I’m still take the risk.

Muhammad Kermalli: Oh yeah. You drove. You was really now you needed to free up more of your time. Nope. Okay. What was it that

Christine Burchett: to ensure I had enough people to take care of all my clients in the world. Okay. Not freeing up time. It hasn’t freed my time. I’ve made time.

Christine Burchett: I had to learn it.

Triena McGuirk: So

Christine Burchett: with the help of everybody in my office, so they all knew I was starting out and they wanted to see me actually succeed and keep going with this one thing, because I’ve been telling them about all these other things that I’m doing that never going anywhere. So they’re lovely, wonderful, supportive.

Christine Burchett: Okay. Make you accountable, right? They, they do. And they support me. So the way they support me as Christine has no clients after four o’clock on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Okay. Beautiful. That’s it. That’s all. Sorry about your luck. So come five o’clock phones are on. Doors are closed and I’m always rushing.

Christine Burchett: Cause I’m almost always late to get to my personal training. With their help. I’ve kept that commitment. And now I think, and I know I told you, I really like this, so I want this to continue. So now it’s not a, oh, I don’t know. It’s a, no, this is how it’s happening.

Muhammad Kermalli: Uh, I can, uh, hear the sounds of that counselor from back before to focus on the things that you can control.

Muhammad Kermalli: And you, the things that you could control is what you would say to others who you would invite. To this, like to your goals and when you put it out there and say it to people generally don’t, there are actually very supportive

Christine Burchett: of it. Okay. Yeah. I was actually amazed. I mean, I thought they would, but I was really, I didn’t even have to say anything about

Triena McGuirk: the, this, this is the conversation.

Triena McGuirk: Was it this week or last week we were having about workplace wellness, right? Like that’s, that’s setting

Christine Burchett: a culture in your work. Yeah.

Triena McGuirk: Leading by example. And they’re, co-leading by

Christine Burchett: creating this workplace

Triena McGuirk: where it’s okay. If one of them comes to you and says, Hey, I need some time to do like, and then everyone rally.

Triena McGuirk: Right.

Christine Burchett: I didn’t even say anything. They just, they just did it.

Muhammad Kermalli: It’s not always that same culture guys. You got to work. And if you’re not putting in 60 hours, wherever that number is, then you’re not really gaming. You don’t play or you’re not a player not, you decided not to go to this. Okay, great. Other way.

Muhammad Kermalli: Yeah, that’s a cautious move

Triena McGuirk: for me.

Christine Burchett: So, um, it’s, uh, it’s always do what I say, not what I do. So

Triena McGuirk: another flipping ,

Christine Burchett: it’s a true thing that I’ll stay late. I work a lot and I want to make sure that things are taken care of and that hasn’t stopped. Um, but I don’t impose that nor expect that on anybody else.

Christine Burchett: This is not only I’m a lawyer, but it’s my firm. So I’m responsible as the owner to ensure things happen and get done and everybody’s taken care of that’s my job. That’s your

Triena McGuirk: balance. So I feel too, like you have those protected

Christine Burchett: days. Yes, yes. And that’s where you can let the flow happen. Yep. Right? Yep. So my, the people who work with me, my team.

Christine Burchett: I like to say team, instead of staff, my team, um, responds by if I need anything. And I rarely ask they’re the first to jump. In fact, I don’t even have to ask for anything anymore these days. They’re amazing. They anticipate. And they just do. Yeah. And that that’s, that’s the culture that I’ve been well, there’s that tape?

Christine Burchett: That’s what, throughout my, yeah, so I, I had wonderful mentorship when I was going through my, I call it my business learning phase, which is so many years in the making of it, striving for that balance. And so I took that away and that was just, you absorbed that. Right? So I had a fantastic mentor. Who’s one of my best friends today.

Christine Burchett: That’s how influential she is and continues to be. And I watched that succeed, that culture blossom, she would always have the most amazing teams, no matter how many times she had to start over with a different company, she was one. Unique characters who could no matter where she landed, she would build an amazing team through herself, her mentorship and her example and

Muhammad Kermalli: what she believes you to notice that oh

Christine Burchett: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christine Burchett: So

Muhammad Kermalli: you’re on the lookout for it as well. And when you see it, you acknowledge it and you get into it, right? Yeah. Things that you can control.

Christine Burchett: I feel very blessed by having that. So I think back to the lawyers are taught to be lawyers, but they’re not to be taught to be business people. And I’m very fortunate.

Christine Burchett: I was taught to be well, there’s that too. And I disagree with that. Um, but I was taught to be an engineer and then I had to be retaught to be a lawyer. And then I had to be retaught yet again, to be a business person because they are not, and I was willing to be taught and I loved it. It was such an amazing progression in learning.

Christine Burchett: People and the person still fascinating.

Muhammad Kermalli: The person in all of this had to also continue to adapt right. Grow all this. That’s really what I’m most interested in is the person and, uh, when, when you’re at where you’re at today now, so you’ve. You stuck with it, you said? Yeah. And you’ve made now even coming.

Muhammad Kermalli: Cause you’re seeing the results. Uh, are the other things that tug at you still there? Have they changed? No. Right. Um, your response to them have changed if you’ve set up everything. Yeah. So what’s next for Christina? Do you ever, do you ever get tempted to go? I want to push this a little further now. Like more Christine’s.

Muhammad Kermalli: Oh,

Christine Burchett: okay. I’m just trying to figure out what that next challenge is. So in my mind, I’ve, I’ve successfully run a business. It’s still there.

Christine Burchett: still there and don’t get me wrong. I’ve had the help and support of many, many, many people to be successful. It’s not just me. Like you’re, you’re one of the key. You’re the underpinning, right? Um, to get. Started and then continue. Cause he’s been a voice I could call, oh my God. Have you ever run across this before?

Christine Burchett: Because I’m struggling here. Um, but that’s with a couple of other key individuals to get to where I am today, which I think I, I think I know it’s nice and successful and wonderful. And I had people who told me that and that’s well, wow. Now what, so I’ve been thinking about the now what, I’m not really sure what I want to do.

Muhammad Kermalli: A lot of people have, um, have, have probably gone through or are going. And it’s happening like right now that they are experiencing either some of the things that you experienced right there when you were at that law school beginning or as a lawyer. And you talked about how there’s some changes that you want to see that you see lawyers face.

Muhammad Kermalli: Um, and we talk about this, what did he call it? Conscience, what did you call it? Compassionate

Triena McGuirk: or passionate.

Christine Burchett: There’s a compassion.

Muhammad Kermalli: And then there’s being the lawyer and it tears apart. I think at the human being, the person who’s in there. I think that’s one of the hardest things about being a lawyer. Is that too?

Muhammad Kermalli: There’s the, there’s the letter of the law. There’s a demand of the clients. And then there’s the compassion. Um, how do you, how do you decide to, to balance that out? I think that’s something I think a lot of people need to hear because you do that so well, and there are some,

Christine Burchett: are there our struggle and everyone’s unique.

Christine Burchett: So your personality is going to come into play. But I, I received, um, another gem of advice. From my very first Loblaws. He was the prosecuting attorney who hired me in the parking lot. Um, yeah, that one. So, um, my, my role was to prosecute, um, well, prosecute crimes. I’ve never done it before. Uh, and uh, he said, if I can give you one piece of advice and he goes, our job is to do justice.

Christine Burchett: It’s not to win. There’s a difference, uh, and proceeded with examples, but I took that to heart. So my job as a lawyer, isn’t to make millions of dollars. It’s not to win is to do justice, which requires a human component, because if your case is wrong, you don’t push it too. When you do justice. And justice, right?

Christine Burchett: It’s blind. It does this. It’s a balance, right? So I carried that through and then I mentioned the mentor through business. Which I, I watched her, I got to sit in with her when she had difficult conversations or negotiations for multimillion multi multi-million dollar contracts. Right. And she never lost the ability to be personable and professional.

Christine Burchett: Now she’s unique. So not a lot of people that are built like that, that was intrinsic to her, but because I got to watch it, I got to learn and I I’m not her, but I got it. If I can do justice. And the other gem from my first lawyer boss was be yourself. Cause if you are trying to be someone else, everyone will spot it eventually and they’ll call you on it.

Christine Burchett: Exactly. And they won’t want to work with you because you’re not genuine, don’t care who you are. And that, that it does. It does. It does. It does, but it proved itself again and again and again. So while I’m learning and growing, because this was many years ago, um, I would try to put on different hats if you will, or different personas and you know, no, no,

Triena McGuirk: no.

Muhammad Kermalli: Oh, no. It means that there’s another perspective on that. Don’t be yourself that do what you, what you’re being asked to do, forget about the justice. Like literally forget about it and you got to really push, right? There’s that culture out there. And now you’re doing things. You’re doing things to actually make a change in.

Christine Burchett: I suppose I’m just being me. Yeah. Hopefully people see the good, I like who I am. And I like how I interact with people and the relationships that I build. So relationship building is really what I learned during the business cycle of my life, if you will. So those are so important to me. And we’ve had lots of conversations about this.

Christine Burchett: Um, I wanna, I want a relationship. My business, my, my clients are family. Yeah. That’s at the heart of everything and that’s why I consider my sex self successful. They like coming to see me.

Muhammad Kermalli: I like how you said that. Oh, what you said about yourself. I like who I am a crisis and all right. Doesn’t mean you like yourself any less

Triena McGuirk: you’re stable.

Triena McGuirk: you’re the constant, right? Everything else is a variable,

Muhammad Kermalli: but there’s is this idea that how can you like yourself in spite of the crisis and the instabilities around us, or even in some cases within us, but liking yourself as such a big, important thing. Um, so I, I think that’s actually understated. It’s understated to like yourself.

Muhammad Kermalli: Um, I think it’s a big deal to say that out loud. Yeah. For people to say that out loud to themselves. Cause they get to this point. We, I, I felt it that sometimes we don’t like ourselves when we’re in the crisis, the crisis is an evaluation of I’m a failure or I’m

Christine Burchett: not,

Triena McGuirk: I’ve seen this like. Counseling capacities where like, we all say things that are positive about a person, and then like you say something and they struggle struggling.

Triena McGuirk: Say, I like myself, I love myself. Yeah, which is the baseline for like everything, but they’re just like, how can I like myself when I do this, this, this, and then the list comes out, right?

Christine Burchett: Yeah. Yeah. Don’t get me wrong. I it’s, it’s just, it’s my statement now. Yeah, because that first crisis that I told you about, didn’t like myself at all.

Muhammad Kermalli: That’s a thing that’s a thing to hear is that when you’re in the crisis, you don’t like, and then, and today you, you, the crisis helped you to understand that you

Christine Burchett: gotta like yourself. Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: So last word, you know, and people are going through crisis either as, as professionals, um, in, in the law industry or otherwise people are going through crisis personally, while there is students.

Muhammad Kermalli: And just even personally trying to balance career money, relationships, and you faced it all in all these ways. Um, what’s your last word to them?

Christine Burchett: That’s my last word to them. I’m going to go back to the comments. People that are very near and dear to me, I’ve made to me over the years, which, uh, number one, you have to be true to yourself if you don’t know who that is.

Christine Burchett: Yeah. Actually, I’m going to challenge you if you do, you do, you’ll look in the mirror, do it, but it’s, you know who you are, but it’s sometimes really hard for people to do the self reflection and acknowledge who they are and what they see and who they are. It’s a hard one. It was hard for me. Don’t get me wrong.

Christine Burchett: Um, so be true to yourself. Uh, from there, from there, everything else happens. Don’t be shy. The other ones don’t be shy about asking for help. So for all of you, eight personalities out there, it’s the hardest thing ever to do, because if you admit you don’t know something, you would meet your week and that means you lost.

Christine Burchett: That’s the journey, but it’s wrong, but it’s wrong, but it’s really hard. So if nothing else at least ask, you can ask anybody you want. And I’ll be the first to say I’ve asked and I’ve learned I’ve gotten better at asking over the years. You still might not my first inclination, I’m more comfortable when people ask me for help.

Christine Burchett: Yeah. Respect and care. That’s it.

Muhammad Kermalli: Respect and care. That’s a big one. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Christie.

Christine Burchett: Thank you. Thank you. It was a fun. Can we do it again?

Muhammad Kermalli: the best part about it? You absolutely can do it again. We must do it again. So, uh, I just want to say thank you. You’re welcome.