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Getting Comfortable with Discomfort

with Muzammil Hemani

In this episode of Breaking, we sit down with Muzammil Hemani, Operations Manager at Ziing Final Mile Inc., to talk about:

👉Learning to be self sufficient and independent from a young age with a hustle mindset.

👉The dichotomy of living a straight lifestyle for family and a rebellious lifestyle with friends.

👉Being seen as a character he didn’t want to be anymore by people from the past.

👉Breaking free from his traditional family structure to create his own trajectory in life.

👉How his therapy journey helped him discover his internal battle with himself.

👉 And much more.


Find Muzammil Hemani at:



Visit for all episodes of the show.


Muhammad Kermalli –

Triena McGuirk –

Min Woo Park & Diana Hong @ 6 Story –

Episode Transcript

*This transcription was made for your convenience. Please excuse any mistakes the automated service made.

Triena McGuirk: [00:00:00] So we’re sitting here today with Zamo Hamani.

Thank you so much for coming. I just, thanks. Thanks for having me. I just had the pleasure of meeting Zamo a few moments ago before coming in here to record. He’s no Mohamed for a lot longer. Um, and I’m just really looking forward to sitting down with you today and hearing your story. Um, what I found interesting just from a cursory conversation with you is just, um, the many lives you’ve lived in one short life.

Mike Hemani: Yeah. And it’s like wearing a bunch of Halloween masks

Triena McGuirk: yeah. And different personas for different purposes and on your journey when you, when you’re growing up and you’re navigating all of these different things, what really comes to me is, you know, Coming to a point in your life where you’re truly looking at what aligns for you and your life purpose and what truly makes you happy and then stumbling across all the things that don’t make you happy in your life.

And sometimes they’re not things necessarily that are pitched to us, which I think is such a pivotal thing for us to all learn [00:01:00] and take from. So thank you for being here today. No, no problem.

Mike Hemani: Thanks for having me here. Like I said, it’s, uh, it’s been a, it’s been a blessing and you know, if I can do, if my story helps somebody, you know, at least I can say to myself, I did something right in my life.

Muhammad Kermalli: you’re doing a lot. Right. well, how far back does it go right to,

Mike Hemani: it goes back.

It goes back a while. Um, you

Muhammad Kermalli: talked about wanting to be like Mike and everybody wants to be like, Mike, everybody wants to be like, right. That was the whole thing, you know, whereas I was a magic Johnson fan to be perfectly honest. So I’m a magic Johnson fan. That’s just where it is

Mike Hemani: just another lake Laker

Muhammad Kermalli: dynasty, not just another Laker dynasty.

Anyway, we’ll talk more about that another day. No problem. But it’s, you know, when you think about, as we’re growing up right from way back, there’s something we want to be. There’s somebody who we, we idolize. Right. And some, whether it’s a basketball player or, or there’s a persona that we, we think about.

And back when, what were the kind of personas that you were thinking about that you think, you know, were, were impactful or influential on you [00:02:00] that took you kind of like into where you found yourself a few years later, maybe in your team years? What were you thinking? Like back when, like, I want to be this guy.

and, and then where

Mike Hemani: does it take you? Um, it’s a community culture. That’s, that’s a very loaded question. Yeah. You

Muhammad Kermalli: know, sounds like a good talking to more,

Mike Hemani: there’s a starting point. It’s, it’s a very loaded question. I mean, you know, especially from the generation that yeah. We’ve grown up. Yeah. Uh, you know, I’ve grown up with your younger brother.

Yeah. Um, you know, you know, we’re, we’re in a generation where, you know, we’ve seen some of the best sports, uh, athletes in our time, you know, you’re Michael Jordans, you’re Troy Amans, you know, you’re, uh, you’re Chrisia and all those, you know, right. Uh, when it comes to, you know, um, certain business, uh, um, figures out there, you know, we’ve seen your build gates and your Howard Dells, you know, come about and whatnot.

And then, you know, We also come from a generation where, you know, let’s say from the eighties where you had a lot of huge [00:03:00] epidemics, like, you know, your crack epidemic, you know, you had a recession, you know, being born at the end of that cusp and going into another generation, you know, we’re, we’ve seen everything we’ve seen the internet come about, you know?

So there’s not just people, there’s, there’s also things that we can also that, you know, I’ve been able to look up to, or my generation that we’ve been able to look up to. Right. I would say, you know, the stars for me that I probably looked up to in the beginning, uh, let’s say preteen and teens are, you know, again, you know, you’re Michael Jordan’s.

Uh, but then, you know, when you see certain things are grown up in certain environments, especially from the environments that I’ve grown up in, you know, you then start to, you know, Idolize things that from your environment. So, you know, when you see, you know, a movie from, let’s say Brian Palm, you know, your Tony Montana, your Scarfaces, your, your good fellas, those are things that, you know, stick to you.

You know, also even the music that you type, the type of music that you hear. So, you know, I’ve [00:04:00] listened to your, you know, your biggie smalls, your Tupac, your NAS, and you know, the common denominator between all those, you know, artists is that they’re telling a certain story. And that common story is, you know, it’s coming from the street, right.

And you hear things like that from people that you already idolize, you know, it already automatically makes you want to be a part of that story, some Stateway or form,

when someone like a biggie smalls passed away or, or a Tupac passed away, they were at the top of their game.

They were, they had the top, top a chart hits. Okay. They, the, the type of music or, or, or the type of things that they’re putting out there, you know, it’s real, you know, it’s not like the music that you’re hearing today where, you know, they’re glorifying diamonds in your teeth and, you know, women and, you know, Not, that’s not really what, what I resonate to, you know, I, I like to hear a story.

I like to hear what people, what people’s, um, [00:05:00] I can say experiences that they’ve gone through to get to where they are today though. They’ve passed away. They’re still

Muhammad Kermalli: remembered. Was it? What do you mean? Like, do you think it’s like the rough and tough, like we came from the, wherever, came from ghetto, the gutter and look where we are now.

Exactly, exactly. Is that, is

Mike Hemani: that what you, I would say that’s probably the thing that resonates to me the most, because they came from nothing. Right. They took something, turned it into something, you know, tangible and the rest is just, and the world is all again, angst you. Exactly. Exactly. Did you feel like the world

Muhammad Kermalli: was

Mike Hemani: Gan?

You. I’ve always felt like the world in some shapewear form has always been against me, but at the same time, I think, you know, when I look back at it, look back at everything I’ve put myself through, you know, and I, I, I want to put that out there. I’ve put myself through those things. No, one’s put me in these positions.

Um, you know,

Muhammad Kermalli: what made you feel like that the world was against you?

Mike Hemani: Well, you know, again, it’s, I guess, you know, a certain lifestyle that I used to live [00:06:00] choices or decisions that I would, you know, make for myself, you know, they’re not in, in line, you know, with, you know, people of the norm, let’s just say, uh, is what do you mean norm?

What does that mean? So I guess what I mean for norm is, you know, I guess the norm of people that, you know, I’ve seen out there, you know, they go to school, right. They try to get a good education, right. They want to try to land a good first job and, you know, progress. And then eventually at some point, you know, build a family with your white picket fence, a dog, child, children, right.

Sort of thing, and then

Muhammad Kermalli: retire. And so you didn’t see yourself following that same trajectory from an early age. Like you’re like, education’s not jiving with me, like it is for others or how was that?

Mike Hemani: Um, yes and no. Right. Um, you know, again for the life, the life, the choices that I’ve made for myself, uh, again, I was always resonated to, you know, some glorification [00:07:00] of, you know, uh, a street hustle or something that these artists always talk about.

Right. Huh? I mentioned before, um, I always wanted to, you know, try to work smart and not hard. Okay. Did, did you ever

Muhammad Kermalli: feel when you’re, you’re thinking about this, that those who are following the norm are a bunch of suckers, like, like, look like they’re just gonna go and they’re just gonna live out this average looking life and.

What was it like, what was that show suits or that guy, Harvey, specter. He goes, you know, life is this, I want this, you know, like, or he says something like that. And it’s like this, like, um, right. It’s like, I want more. And all of these people are just they’re suckers. They’re just taking this path. And I don’t want that.

Or was it the other way around that you wanted it and just somebody was sending you some message going, you don’t belong here, which one? Or was it any of those?

Mike Hemani: You know what I, you know, it’s a little combination of everything. Okay. You know, um, I looked at people that worked [00:08:00] so hard to try to get to where they want.

Right. And, you know, they’re taking so long to get to that point. Whereas, you know, for someone, you know, like me, you know, I would look at that, what they’re doing and I’d be like, okay, what’s the best way to cut that line? Cause I can tell you right now. I know if I go to the club, I’m not waiting in line, like the rest of the suckers, I’m gonna make sure I know someone at the door.

I know someone inside and I’ve got my booth, my VIP booth and my bottles waiting for me. Right. So, you know, that’s the way I always looked at, looked at life, you know, just, where can I find a shortcut and, and, and get in without having to make any sort of disruption. And if I do make a disruption, you know, I wanna make sure it’s known that, you know, I’m the only one that can make this sort of disruption.

You can’t do it. You know, sort of

Muhammad Kermalli: thing. Well, that’s, that’s the, you know, the good fellas that we used to watch, I used to watch this like every week, twice a week, and the message there is like, look at all these average people going, getting paid hourly they’re suckers, [00:09:00] and I’m not gonna end up like that. but that is exactly what we’re thinking.

We watch a movie where like, we start emulating characters in, in these movies that we choose to watch. Absolutely. We could have gone and watched some something else, but that’s what we watched and then we want more of it. And so, um, so you start finding yourself, making conscious decisions, saying. Yeah. I wonder what that’s gonna look and feel like.

And then you start, do you wait for an invitation for something like that? Or do you seek it?

Mike Hemani: Um, if anything, you know what, I, I couldn’t wait. I’m not the type of person I could wait for. Okay. You know, you, you, I looking for it. Exactly. I wasn’t looking for it. You know, one of, I guess you can say one of my biggest issues for myself personally is always having that feeling of instant gratification.

Right. Okay. You know, I guess you could say in my earlier, earlier years, it, it, it carried me. But then at some point, you know, coming into my later years now, you know, it’s, it’s been, it’s been a deficit. Hmm. So to say, you know, um, but going [00:10:00] back to what you were saying, you know, there was, I was always seeking it.

I was always seeking, you know, something bigger and better wanting more, not, not getting that feeling that I’m satisfied, but not having to wait in line for it. Not having to wait in mind for it.

Muhammad Kermalli: Exactly. Not being a sucker like everybody else.

Triena McGuirk: What made you do like universe city at the same time as you were doing other things though?

Cause that’s like two different

Mike Hemani: paths, to be honest with you, contradict you to like, to be quite Frank with you. University was probably, it was probably one of the best business setups I could PO I could possibly think of with that sort of lifestyle. Think about it. You know, you’re, I purposely chose to go to university or school, you know, uh, post for post-secondary post education, um, outside of town, you know, somewhere where I’m not known someone where I’m not gonna attract any sort of attention, you know?

Um, when you’re. Living on campus or, you know, some form of a student housing or dorm, you know, one of the first things I would always, always try to do is, is [00:11:00] try to see who’s at the top of their game. Who’s, who’s, who’s a part of the, a crowd who are the people I need to, um, it’s kind of like when you’re making a, making a business plan, you know, you’re always researching your competition or the competitor out there where your market is, where your market is.

And then, you know, you try to offer something that nobody else has, whether that’s, you know, through a product or through a service, you know, um, I was able to do both, fortunately for me,

Muhammad Kermalli: calling yourself a service provider. That’s good. Okay. You know, all right.

Mike Hemani: Um, again, not something that I’m proud of. Sure.

But I will say this, but that right. That’s how you see it when you’re at that point. Exactly. But I can definitely say this though, you know, I, and I think I’ve said this before, you know, um, I regret a lot of the things that I’ve done in my past, but at the same time, I, I don’t because it’s. Made me who I am today.

Mm-hmm , you know, um, for example, you know, I, you know, was

Triena McGuirk: sorry. Did, was that also a beard for you going to school? Like from a family perspective

Mike Hemani: as well? Pretty much like it’s you, you took a thought right out my head. It was just [00:12:00] more so to be honest, I, I, I went to get my degree just to basically shut my mom up.

Not constantly in my ear. You know, mom, if you’re watching this, sorry. I love you. But, uh, That’s the truth. Yeah. You know,

Muhammad Kermalli: and he listened, he heard you by the way. Right.

Mike Hemani: You know, um, it’s your thoughts? Exactly. It was more so like a beard, more so like a, like an ugly veil or not an ugly veil. Sorry. A very helpful veil, a very helpful veil to cover, to cover an ugly, you know, inside mm-hmm at the time, I didn’t see it as being ugly.

Uh, you know, but when I look back at it now, you know, there’s, there are a lot of ugly things about it, you know, but at the same time, again, as I said, it’s, uh, I, I don’t regret it cuz it’s made me who I am today. You know, for example, um, even in my career, uh, you know, I’m, I’m in supply supply chain and logistics, I’ve been doing this for over 15 years.

I was doing it while I was doing other things, you know, uh, it’s just only in the last, you know, five [00:13:00] to eight years that, you know, I’ve actually taken my career more seriously, you know? Um, and you know, actually applying myself doing what, you know, I, I actually am, you know, wanting to set out to do rather than, you know, be distracted from, from the noise and stuff like that from my past.

Right. So it’s, it’s, it’s helped me in, in a lot of ways, you know? Um, but

Muhammad Kermalli: when you’re going, when you’re going through it and you’re at that moment there, so you’re in university, you’re providing a product and a service. Okay. You’re obviously also successful at it. So you’re experiencing growth. Did you see it as growth?

Did you see it as, Hey, I’m getting better at my trade. I’m moving up. I’m getting ahead of that line. Like what keeps you going? What keeps you motivated?

Mike Hemani: To be honest with you, you know, the end all be all it, you know, What, what kept me going in that is aside from getting what I want when I want, whenever I want.

And however I want, that’s one thing it’s, you know, there’s also a glitz and glamor [00:14:00] sort of factor to it. You know, when you are making such an abundant amount of money, you know, providing a service and product, you know, knowing that I can walk into any store or walk into any restaurant or walk into any establishment, whatever that establishment is and getting what I want, no matter what the cost is, you know, that’s what kept me going, you know, um, again, I don’t have to wait for anything.

I don’t have to be that sucker. That’s working on nine to five I mean, the one thing that my parents always taught me was, you know, to be self-sufficient for yourself, you know, um, even for the lifestyle that I lived, you know, I didn’t really have to live that lifestyle.

That’s just a choice I made, you know, I come from a good home. Yeah. Uh, good home in a sense where, you know, my family’s tilt still till this day is intact. Yeah. Somewhat. Yeah. Um, but again, you nice chaos, organized chaos. Exactly. Perfect. Perfectly put, put. Um, they always, you know, and we come from, I come from a well to do family, you know, but you know, the one thing I can [00:15:00] definitely hold dearly that I appreciate from my family till today is, you know, don’t rely on anybody else for.

For where you want for where you want to be, whether it’s financially, you know, um, support, like, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm, , um, that’s one thing I, I appreciate, you know, something that my dad in mom and dad instilled into me is never, you know, don’t, don’t be a chunk to somebody else. Don’t be tied to somebody else that way, you know, always provide for yourself, provide for your family, you know, at whatever cost.

So I’ve got this independence. I took that last statement a bit too, a little far.

Muhammad Kermalli: Well, you took your interpretation of it, right? That there was something that you, you accessed and there was chemistry. So you kept going with it. You, you were seeking out from some level, so you also feel like you’re successful, right.

You’re moving along. Cuz some people do it and they’re not successful.

Mike Hemani: No, they’re not. Um, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, there’s no really gray area when you live that lifestyle, you know, you’re, you’re either [00:16:00] big in it or you’re just a minnow. Right. You know, I didn’t want to be, you know, In that gray area. I wanted to take it.

I wanted to be big. I wanted to be the, the Tupac. I wanted to be the biggie smalls of, of, of what I do. You know? Um,

Muhammad Kermalli: did you ever feel that you got

Mike Hemani: there? I, I felt that I got there, but again, I was never satisfied because yeah.

Triena McGuirk: That’s, I, I keep thinking fulfillment, like the fulfillment, you never achieved

Mike Hemani: fulfillment or exactly.

And no matter, you know, there was a time where, you know, I’d walk into, you know, my place where I was living at that time and I’d look at, look at everything around. I’m just like, this is just not enough. Like, I want more, I want a bigger place. You know what I mean? Like you’re always wanting more and it’s just never enough, but that,

Triena McGuirk: but you think like, I just find this so interesting cuz everyone kind of goes through this relationship with money and stuff.

Yeah. And at the end of the day, it’s just stuff.

Mike Hemani: Exactly you either have, but

Triena McGuirk: at the time crappy stuff or [00:17:00] you have really nice stuff or, but

Mike Hemani: at the moment, you’re not, it’s just stuff, but at the moment, you’re not. Yeah. You’re not thinking about that. You’re all you’re thinking about is when is the next drop on, on, on this Gucci sweater gonna be coming up, right?

When am the next, next Jordans coming out and not just the regular common bear, the rare pair that’s selling for a thousand dollars as opposed it’s to the $150 pair that you would normally buy from a foot locker. Right. Right. It’s, it’s, it’s just never enough. You know, when you’re living that lifestyle, you know, the higher, the dollar amount is you automatically tend to think it’s bigger, better, faster

Muhammad Kermalli: Mm-hmm did, did you ever feel like a celebrity walking around in certain places? I could sometimes make you feel like you’ve got value, then you are valuable mm-hmm absolutely.

Did you ever get that feeling? Absolutely. You walk in and everyone’s like, oh look, and you can see eyes looking at you thinking, oh, I know they’re talking about me now. And they know I’m here, I’m in the room. Do you ever feel that way? Absolutely. I mean, there’s, it’s

Mike Hemani: a great feeling knowing that. So then that feels pretty good.

Knowing, knowing that people are looking at you, knowing people are talking about you, you [00:18:00] know, there’s, it’s funny. One of, one of my favorite artists that I, I still listen to this day, um, you know, from NWA. Okay. Easy, you know, he said something very famous, you know, and he said, All pub all publicity is good publicity.

The fact that somebody’s talking about you mm-hmm , you know, the fact that I could impact somebody in their daily life and affect them.

Right. Makes me feel gave you value. Gave, gave me some form of value. Right. But then at some point it’s just like, well, it’s just that ego game. It, it

Triena McGuirk: ego, it never gets nurtured

Muhammad Kermalli: or come on or filled up. Yeah. But at that point, we don’t say to ourselves, that’s my ego talking. No, that’s not what we say. I never said that.

It’s like, yeah, I’m more something. I am like the center of this I’m here.

Mike Hemani: I’m somebody. Yeah. But now, you know, when I look, when now when I walk around places, you know, people that know me from just that lifestyle versus me who I am today, you know, I don’t like being, I [00:19:00] don’t like the way I’m, I’m remembered right now.

You know, now it’s like I walk into a room and people that let’s say know me from my past in some shape way or form, they’re scared of me. I’m, I’m feared. I’m not perceiving a good light. They automatically judge, you know, cuz you know, they, they haven’t seen me in so long. They don’t know what I’ve been through.

They don’t, you know, understand or see the progress that I’ve, you know, Taken on from myself individually as a person, as a human being mm-hmm right. So, you know, yeah. Wanting to be remembered is, is one thing, but wanting to be remembered for something positive for what? Yeah. For, for what is, is a whole different to different ball game, you know?

And unfortunately growing up, you know, especially for, you know, P people or let’s say males in, in my generation, you know, they don’t, you know, tend to realize it or see that. Right. Some and when they do realize it, sometimes it’s too late, you know, I think fortunately for me, I, I, I would at least hope, [00:20:00] you know, I may be late to late to the show, but you know, I’m at the show right now.

Mm-hmm, , I’m, I’m, I’m there, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m a part of this show, you know, and it’s though I’m late. I feel like it’s, you know, I’ve caught myself in time to better, late than never. Exactly. Right.

Muhammad Kermalli: Exactly. So there’s a saying one of my favorites that says what you own owns you a hundred percent, right?

Yeah. At some point in time, did it ever feel like you went from a want to now? I need to keep this up.

Mike Hemani: Yes. It, it, it did. And I’ll, and I’ll tell you how it, it owned me. Yeah. Okay. Um, You know, when you’re in that lifestyle, when you’re in, in that certain lifestyle, you know, you go through certain things, you know, you have run-ins with authorities and stuff like that.

You would tend to think that most people that, you know, encounter that they would straighten up. You know, unfortunately for me, I didn’t look at it that way. Every time I would get let’s say booked, right. You know, I’m, as I’m coming out, [00:21:00] I’m thinking to myself, okay, I got caught this way. I’m gonna continue to do this.

I gotta analyze how I got caught. Mm-hmm and how am I going to get out of that to, to keep being able to go forward. But as you get older, every time you have, you know, every time I would have a downfall, you know, and I would say to myself, okay, you know what, I’m gonna try to live a straight life. I’m gonna actually actually, you know, Focus on my job, focus on the career that I’m in, you know, something or the other would happen to me.

So you’re trying to

Muhammad Kermalli: go somewhere, but door a door, closes a door closes, then you’re like, okay, then you revert.

Mike Hemani: Well, exactly. I was just gonna say, you know, if something, you know, for example, you know, in, in the household that I grew up in, you know, I grew up in your typical Bollywood household.

So, you know, you have your, my mom, dad, my brother. Okay. Then my uncle, my aunt. Okay. They’re two daughters and my dad’s parents, you know? Okay. My grandpa and grandpa and grandpa. Right. So an extended family. So an extended family system. Right. Um, There’s Hollywood household. Yeah. Have [00:22:00] you heard of Bollywood

Muhammad Kermalli: household?

Okay. I haven’t even heard Bollywood household. Okay. You know, so,

Mike Hemani: you know, when you’re working with a family business or, you know, I might be getting a bit off topic here, you know, when you’re working with a family business, you know, there’s, you know, a lot of expectations, you know, but again, living in a extended family system, you’ve got everyone’s income coming into one pot.

Right. Okay. Now let’s say if I wanted to go do something for myself, mm-hmm, okay. I’m bringing in all this money. Okay. Financially, whether it’s through my job or through my other activities. Right. Okay. And I’m putting it in this pot now. And you know, someone like my dad, who’s the head of the household is now dictating to me what I can and can’t do with my money right now.

If I had a da, a falling out with my dad, whether it’s with something personal within the family or something to do with the business right then, and I’m trying to live a certain, you know, live a straight life, you know, I would then resort or revert back, like you said, [00:23:00] I would revert back to my old ways. Right.

Muhammad Kermalli: So, um, so why I’m curious about something you’re contributing to a, to a family household income, and you’re probably contributing quite significantly based on how successful you are in, in what you, what you were doing. Do you, do you think that there was ever a wonder going, where are you getting?

Where are you getting this money from? Or do you think they knew, or how was, how, like you were very close to the family. So,

Triena McGuirk: but he also, you would’ve had to move your business from university back to, with your family. So they’re two different. yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: Areas of, I’m not clear on what’s going on there. Like how does I, would

Mike Hemani: I, how did you manage?

I would never keep anything at home. Never because I’ve been in too many situations. Well, it’s in a

Triena McGuirk: biggie, small song. It’s one of the commandments, right? Exactly.

Mike Hemani: Exactly. Okay. Exactly. You are awesome. I notes. Oh, you gotta take, you gotta take notes. I have how much to learn from you guys. [00:24:00] I would never keep anything that is that like financial planning

Muhammad Kermalli: 1 0 1.

You gotta

Triena McGuirk: listen to the song. He rolls it all over you. Yeah.

Mike Hemani: Rules. You know, I’ve been in too many situations with, with specifically my dad where he’s not dumb, you know, he’s, you know, the part of the part of Africa where he’s from. I mean, you know, east African, okay. Indian, east African, and you know, my dad actually used to tell me all the time and say to me, you know what, Zama, when I see you, I see a younger version of me.

You know, I’ve had too many run-ins with my dad, you know, at a very younger age when I started doing whatever I was doing, um, at an early age.

So I told myself I’m never keeping anything at home, plus, you know, I don’t wanna bring that sort of heat around my family or anything like that. So, you know, we’d, uh, I’d always keep stuff, keep my other belongings at other places where I know it’s safe and secure and, you know, I know where that’s all my cash and stuff like that is.

So when I’m contributing to the house, uh, I’m only contributing a certain amount mm-hmm so I’d, I’d be, I would maybe [00:25:00] let’s say out of a hundred, I might take like 5% out of it. Right? Yeah. And just contribute it. So it’s, you know, because my, my parents would see me, you know, especially my mom. Um, she would be seeing me, you know, spending, you know, Exuberates amounts of money.

Right. You know, like to a point where like she used to like, tell me that, you know, Moza, I’m a shoe fanatic. So she would tell me like, Zael, you know, if I see you coming to this house with another form of footwear, I don’t care if it’s a dollar store pair of flip flops, like you’re out, you and your shoes are out.

So, and my mom’s a smart lay. Like she would see like my outfit, she would see my, she always knew, like when I start my outfit, it’s gonna start with my shoes. Right. So, um, I had to be very, very careful as to how I spent my, so you’re measuring all this. I have to measure. It’s it’s, it’s not, and there was even a, a high that I would get outta that.

Cuz if I could outsmart, you know, authorities, right. You know, I could outsmart my parents, you know, and my parents, they’re not dumb people. Mm-hmm like they, they are, they are like the authorities. [00:26:00]

Muhammad Kermalli: I mean, I’m just asking just the way you said, right? They’re not,

Mike Hemani: they’re not dumb people.

Muhammad Kermalli: So. So I wanna go back to that, cuz you said earlier on, you said whenever I would have a downfall, so, and then, you know, I would, I would say, um, okay Mami, it’s time to right.

Change things. What did you mean by a downfall? Because sometimes a downfall is not the downfall. It’s the beginning of your actually. So, but you took it as a downfall and is it something as simple as like, you know, it was like an authority, like there was a, you know, there there’s something to do with an authority saying, Hey, you’re outta line or was it more internal?

The downfall. That’s what I’m

Mike Hemani: curious about. I, I would say it’s a, it’s a bit of both. Okay. You know, um, again, like I mentioned before, you know, I, I, I live in a FA extended family system, you know, so I’m, you know, I have no choice, but to be a part of the family business, I have no choice, but to continue [00:27:00] this sort of dynasty sure.

That’s being built right. Or has been built, let’s say for me, and is expected to pass on to me. Right. You know, um, with thought, you know, there’s a lot of financial constraints, you know, hence why I would, you know, revert back to what I would, what I’ve always done. Mm-hmm right. Without being controlled in that way, you know?

Um, it wasn’t until, you know, I decided to leave my family business to leave my family home. Uh, and even after doing that, I was still being distracted, you know, from all this noise, you know, I, I. you know, said to myself, okay, I’ve already left the house. I’ve left my family business. There’s no one here to control me or, you know, tell me what I can and can’t do with my money.

And somehow some way I’m still finding myself back to doing what I’m doing, being owned, being owned and not being, uh, you know, I’m, I’m leaving, being owned by my family and, you know, leaving [00:28:00] the stresses and, and crap that comes with that. Now I’m, I’m, I’m reverting and being owned by the things that I used to do that will only get me really so far at that time.

I’m not thinking about that, but when I look back at it now, you know, I, I honestly wish I, I could go about it another way. If somebody gave me a time machine today and, and, and gave me that opportunity, I would definitely take that opportunity. But you know what it is, what it is, passes pass. You can only move on forward.

Right. So, so it starts dawning on you now. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. It’s it, you know, you start to think about it and, you know, What really bothered me is how old were you around this time? So around this time, again, this is as early as five years ago. This is I back as 2017. Okay. Know, I was I’m 38 now. Okay. I was about, uh, what, 32 33.


Muhammad Kermalli: Okay. So it’s very recent. It’s

Mike Hemani: very recent. Okay. Very recent. And the messed up part is, is, you know, when you revert back to that lifestyle time and time, especially when you’re dealing with certain [00:29:00] products or services, you know, they’re high paid. It’s very high. It’s a lot of money involved, but you know, when I was doing it, you know, I was chasing all this money and I’m not getting paid or I’m not collecting, or, you know what I mean?

No. You know, what do you mean when I say not collecting is, you know, I would, let’s say front somebody, something, let somebody something for example. Okay. Okay. And, you know, I would say them come back to me in about two weeks or at this time, and right. You know, come collect and you know, you go your way. I go my way, right.

You know, even up until today, you know, if, if, if I really wanted to, there’s a lot of money out there for me to collect. Mm-hmm what am I gonna do with it? What is it gonna do for me? It’s it’s well, is that not part

Muhammad Kermalli: of the two pack list of things too? Do or no? Don’t leave a receivable out there. No, no, it’s

Mike Hemani: it’s um, no, I know what you mean, but you know, actually, okay, here we go.

Let’s just put it this way. Muhammad, you know, when I look back at everything I accumulated for myself, what do I have really to show for it today? The only thing I can tell you, [00:30:00] what I have to show for it today at this very moment is my shoe collection.

Muhammad Kermalli: I was

Mike Hemani: gonna start there, the amount, the amount of cars I’ve I’ve I’ve had, I’ve the opportunity to drive the amount of clothes, the amount of jewelry, the amount of anything you could possibly think of.

Right. You know, um, I’ve seen it, I’ve done it. I’ve worn it. I’ve traveled it, you know, but what do I have to show for it today? Really? Hmm. You know, And in doing all those things, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m I was damaging my credit. I was, you know, um, damaging my reputation,

so going back to my downfalls, you know, I’m chasing all this small change and not getting paid for it or not getting the results that I’m expecting, you know, I’m just alluding myself to being the same old Moza or people are looking at me being the same old Moza because they’re seeing me they’re they’re seeing me now that I’ve left my family home.

I’ve left the family business. Um, what am I doing about it? You know, I’m, I’m asking. And at that [00:31:00] time I’m not, I’m not asking myself. We’re not sorry. I’m not seeing myself as like doing what I really want to do. You know, I’m, I’m, I’m just falling back. I, I mean, I would, something was familiar exactly. Right.

You know, I’m

Muhammad Kermalli: so the growth, the feeling of growth stopped

Mike Hemani: happening. Exactly. The feeling of growth stopped happening. I mean, I’m saying to myself that, okay, you know what, I, I want to get out of the stress of being with my family because they’re are just bringing way too much stress on me. There’s too much trauma growing up, you know, in that household, you know, and not to say that I’m, I’m, I’m bad talking my family, no.

Right. You know, they come from a generation where they were taught certain things or taught a certain way. Right. And what they were taught. Is being passed on to me. It’s, it’s, it’s generational knowledge and you’re

Muhammad Kermalli: like,

Mike Hemani: I want my own it. It’s not. Yeah. I mean, don’t get me wrong. The thought and idea of continuing, you know, an extended family, you know, is great, but the actual reality of it happening in, in today’s modern society, it’s slim to none.[00:32:00]

I mean, it extending family

Triena McGuirk: like living within your, your family structure as


Mike Hemani: was exactly like the way I grew up, you know, and wanting to, it was always a dream, you know, but, you know, with the traumas and triggers that I I’ve, I have from that, you know, um, I don’t even want that from my own kid. You know, I don’t, you know what I mean?

If you don’t mind me

Triena McGuirk: asking what would be like a trauma or trigger from that experience that,

Mike Hemani: from your perspective, I mentioned it before, you know, there’s so much pressure and expectation, you know, especially me being the eldest, you know, son, the firstborn in my family. Okay. Uh, how many siblings you, so I mentioned before, it’s just me and my brother.

Okay. And then I’ve got, and I did two cousins, my two cousins, which I don’t even look at as cuz they’re my sisters, the siblings. Yeah. The siblings. Right. So I’ve got all this pressure and, and expectation of on me right now because I didn’t follow the rules or you know, like my brothers and my two younger sisters, you know, my parents always used me as the example saying, [00:33:00] don’t be like your brother maam.

Don’t be that guy. Because if you’re gonna be him, you’re gonna be like X you’re gonna be X, Y, and Z. So already I’m being painted in a, in a very, you know, judge judgmental way. Mm-hmm, mind you. I brought that on for myself and I hold accountability and responsibility, but certain things that I required, let’s say as a child, um, for example, um, and Mo you know, me from the soccer field, you know, I play very competitively, you know, side, I live and die for soccer until this day.

You know, my dad would always tell me, like, I would have injuries. I would, I would get injured and I would’ve come to recover, but my dad would tell me all the time, like, do you get paid for what you play? I’m like, no, he’d ask me why. I’m like, why would I wanna get paid? Like I’m doing what I love, you know?

Um, and he would just would always down downplay me on any of my dreams or goals and ambition. I’m just using soccer, soccer as an example, you know, I, [00:34:00] you know, growing up and I played soccer at a very, very high level, you know, um, I would see, you know, my teammates, you know, their parents would come watch them play, cheer them on, you know, they get hurt, you know, their mom or daughter, somebody’s there to pick ’em up and be like, you know what, you’re gonna be.

Okay. You’re gonna be all right. You know, if I got injured, if I came first, I would not have anybody there. Mm-hmm , you know, I think my mom came to my games up until like, I was be 12 or 13 after that she was, you know, doing her own thing. Um, but if I came home injured and I couldn’t go to work the next day or, you know, , it, it, wasn’t a great conversation when I got just really different values.

So it’s just different values. It’s, you know, I guess you can say is always wanted, you know, just somebody to tell me, I love you or somebody to, to, to put their arm around me and be like, you know, are you good? Do you want to talk? What can I do to mm-hmm to help you, right? Maybe life could’ve been would’ve been different.

Maybe I wouldn’t have done what I, what mm-hmm, what, what I’ve [00:35:00] done in my past, you know, maybe life would’ve been. a different way. Right. But again, like I said, you know, I, I don’t let my past, you know, define who I am, you know, uh, or even as early as five years ago, it’s, it’s what I’m doing today. Mm-hmm is what’s gonna make me a better person for tomorrow then there’s and then there’s other things I’ve, I’m, I’m doing too in that, in my, my journey, you know, one of the, uh, one of the, the biggest steps I’ve taken for, for myself in life is I’ve started doing therapy for myself, you know?

And, um, started about a year ago with one therapist. Wasn’t the right fit. Not to say, not say the therapist was no, we have to shop around. Yeah. Shop around, you know, um, I did a little bit got off the, that with, with that, the, with that particular therapist. And then, um, I found myself, you know, um, a. Not, I don’t wanna say reverting to old lifestyle, but you know, there’s habits from that old lifestyle.

Like I’ll, I’ll be, I’ll be quite vulnerable with you about something, you know, when you’re living that lifestyle, [00:36:00] you know, whether you’re dealing with authorities or family or friends or whatever, you’re not being true. You’re not, there’s, there’s a lie. Okay. Whether it be telling a blatant lie, we’re not being forthcoming about something mm-hmm so I’ve always had this problem of being a liar.

Mm-hmm , you know, whether that, again, through a mission, whether it being through a mission or just blatantly telling you that, oh, this is, this book is purple, but it’s actually green. I’m actually defending my evidence. And I’m knowingly not even knowingly to the point where like, I’m actually believe believing my life.

Mm-hmm , you know what I mean? So, you know, that’s and that’s deeper within my core mm-hmm

Triena McGuirk: right. Did it, did it happen? Um, cause I’ve seen this with family members of mine as well, where, and you call it out. They just will lie sometimes over. Ridiculous things that have no consequence to anything. It’s funny you say that

Mike Hemani: whatsoever.

It’s funny you say that. Yeah. It’s funny you say that because I would lie or not be forthcoming on some of the most [00:37:00] simplest of things. It’s like, you know this, I don’t understand, like here I’ll give an example. Okay. I’ll give you an example. It comes from

Triena McGuirk: sometimes from being really criticized, at least from the people I’ve spoken with, this

Mike Hemani: is not a clinical thing.

It’s funny you say that because my therapist, you know, mentioned the same thing to me. There’s just fear of being criticized. There’s just fear of being judged. There’s just fear of, if you tell the truth, you’re just gonna get

Triena McGuirk: lashed at your, so I’m not gonna be vulnerable, so I’m gonna lie so you can get mad the lie.

And then I don’t perceive that as a rejection

Mike Hemani: of self. Exactly. Like, I’ll look, I’ll give it a example. Like my wife will cause I’m looking at this

Muhammad Kermalli: thinking, is it actually purple now? ,

Mike Hemani: he’s convinced you’re a good liar, man. Like, like let’s put it this way. Like my wife will come into a room. And she saw this cup right here.

Okay. Now let’s say she leaves the room and I, for some odd reason move it. Okay. She’ll ask me, did you move it? I’ll be like, no, no. And she’ll be like, Zao this cup was right here. You’re the only person in this room. You’re right by the sink. Why would [00:38:00] you like, you know what I mean? I’m like, no, babe, I did not do this.

And then it would just become a snowball effect. I’m I’m now, like, I’ve now said this lie. Now I gotta keep this slide going. I gotta make sure you gotta double down. I gotta double down. It’s I’m playing, I’m playing blackjack all the constantly all the time, right. To the point where, you know, it ends up, you end up leaving your lies.

Right. So, you know, that’s one of the know core things in me, which I, I don’t wanna say I used to be ashamed about, but you know, But it served a purpose. It served a purpose for me, it served a purpose for me, you know, but you know, when I look back at it now, it’s, it’s, you know, for the work that I’m doing in therapy right now to better myself, you know?

Um, it’s I see the results that, that are coming out of it. Mind you, you know, I’ve only restarted my therapy journey, you know, um, last year, October, November resemble, can I ask


Muhammad Kermalli: something? Yeah, because you jump right to the therapy. I want to go, I want ask you something else before that there had to have start, it had to started [00:39:00] before that point where you start saying something’s not right.

Something doesn’t feel right. And usually the first time that starts happening, we there’s a denial now everything’s fine. I’ll get through it. And then, you know, it goes on. And then at some point in time, you make the decision and going for therapy for guys like us from our say communities or the background that we might come up with and tough soccer player.

Um, You know, I’m a celebrity here, you know, that kind of stuff. It, it, you calculate and you say, oh my God, how’s this gonna look? And then we, we don’t, we don’t make the move. We don’t go for it. Um, did you ever have that? Did you go through that? And what was that like for you? You know, or was it just like, no, I need this

Mike Hemani: I’m going, no, I, it was, it was, it was exactly what you said it was, I need this, I’m going, you know, but the, you know, I always the thought of going for therapy or talking to someone, you know, it was very nerve-wracking, you know, [00:40:00] look, I’ll give an example.

Well, I was a nervewracking. What about it was so just being like, like, look, this, this comes from actually one of my traumas where with, let’s say, especially with my dad, you know, where I would, if something was bothering me, if I got affected in some shape way or form, and I went to my dad randomly and be like, dad, you know, this is bothering me.

I’m feeling like this, you know, the usual answer I would get from my dad is this is all in your head. Have a glass of water. You’ll be fine. Hmm. Okay. Or it will be like, miss you’re crazy. Stop this nonsense sort of thing. So, you know, wanting to be able to, or having this, I ended up developing need to want to be heard, to want to talk, to wanna get my feelings out.

But then because I’ve gone through that trauma with, with my dad where I can’t even talk about what’s happening inside me, I’m being frowned upon for it, you know, or [00:41:00] even the forget, even, even being frowned upon the fact that there’s not even somebody there to listen, let alone give, give any sort of advice, you know, and you would expect that from a father, um, you know, having to wanted to talk if I’m not getting that from my own family or my own, you know, people that are closest to me.

How, how am I gonna get this? How am I gonna get that from somebody who doesn’t know me from, from Tom Dicker airy sort of thing. Right. Um, so it was, it was a bit nerve-wracking I wanted to do it because, you know, there’s all these feelings and, and emotions that are just, that have been building up over and over the years, to the point where, you know, now as emotions and feelings are starting to pour, and I don’t have an outlet, I don’t have any way to channel those emotions or, or receive those emotions and, you know, distribute it, you know?

Um, I think I was mentioning to you earlier, before that, you know, my last three or four sessions have been so heavy that, you know, even right now, even in this conversation I’m having with, I’m having an internal battle with myself [00:42:00] inside. You know, I, I discovered the other day in, in, in one of my, uh, therapy sessions that, you know, there’s three people inside me.

There’s. Child maam mm-hmm there’s rebellious maam, and then there’s adult maam. Okay. And right now, you know, my last session, I, I just had, I’m very angry at, at I’m very, very angry at rebellious maam. Mm-hmm right. Rebellious maam, you know, was the one that protected child maam. Right. You know, rebellious maam is the one that, you know, got me into hustling and got me into this.

And, you know, but what is Moza rebellious Moama really done for me. What value, you know what I mean? So I’m having these internal battles within myself. Mm-hmm even up right now. Now they served a purpose, but they all serve a purpose. They all serve a what’s amazing is that

Muhammad Kermalli: Zamo you’re aware of this now.

Yeah. See, the whole thing is, is for a lot of people, and this is why we’re doing what we’re doing is a lot of people get stuck at rebellious. Whatever yeah. Version [00:43:00] of themselves that they’re in and there’s this feeling of entrapment. You felt it, that there was this need that you’re trapped, but you better get it out somehow.

Exactly. You searched for outlets. Mm-hmm a lot of times I would imagine that people who are, who are in that position, you know, can’t find the outlet or really just convinced themselves like, you’re, you’re crazy. Stop this. And, and they don’t go forward. Mm-hmm , there’s no progress made to get to this level that you’re at.

Yeah. And I just want to, for their sake, really, you know, be able to help them through your expression, how to get out from that

Mike Hemani: point. It’s, it’s not an easy thing. There’s no, yeah, there’s no real way. There’s no real way to get to that point. There’s no really guide or manual or anything that I can say to, to anyone to do that.

But what do you do? What did I, what? Well, look, I’ll, I’ll take you back a bit into our conversation, you know, from my downfalls, you know, [00:44:00] realizing that I’m getting all this. Short change and I’m not getting paid in this and that, you know, I have to some, you know, before even getting to therapy, I still had to go through a process.

Right. Right. I had to, you know, to, to be able to get to the point that I’m at today, I had to go, you know, realize, okay, there’s identify what my downfall is, you know, I have to, you know, and what did you identify? Well, identified as my downfall again, like I said, you know, I’m, I’m got all this distraction.

I’m not really focusing on what I really want. Mm-hmm and it wasn’t until my girlfriend now wife. Okay. You know, and I have to say this, I have to get this out. You know, my, my wife and child are, you know, are a big part of, you know, where I am, you’re developing I development. So I could say there you feel, I proud.

I’m proud to say that. My wife and kid are the ones that saved me. Right. You know, it’s usually supposed to be the other way around or predominantly traditionally it’s supposed to be the other way around, but my wife and kids save me. No, our kids

Muhammad Kermalli: are huge. Wake up calls or no, for sure. Partners are huge.


Mike Hemani: up calls. You know, I had a, [00:45:00] you know, my wife had a heart to heart with me and this was after I got laid off. Um, I kind of reverted to my old, some of my old ways. And this is where I was chasing, you know, a measly $500 from someone that owes me money. Right. Or whether it be a thousand or whatever it is.

Right. Right. And I’m not getting the results. And I’m just, she’s like, look, you know, you need to open up your eyes. You need to see what I see in you. Mm-hmm when she said that, you know, I’ve never had anybody tell me that Mo you’ve got potential. Mm-hmm you can actually be someone, you can actually do something, you know?

So it wasn’t until then I said to myself, I’m like,

Here. I’ve got somebody that wants to build a life with me. Okay. Now mind you, you know, she, when I met my, my, my, my girlfriend, then my wife now, you know, she already had a child. Mm. So I’m going into, into this part [00:46:00] of, part of my life. Someone who is already established someone who is already built a life and is still continuing to build a life.

And her main purpose is, is because she’s got little eyes looking up to her. Mm-hmm now. that’s what I want. I’ve always wanted that. I never thought I could have that, but I always wanted to have that. Right. Got it. So, you know, when my wife had this heart to heart, you know, with me

Muhammad Kermalli: wanted specifically what to have the family

Mike Hemani: to have somebody to just, not just the family, just, you know, that lifestyle, you know, to have a home, build a home, build a future build build, build.

So build something, you know, you know, kind of similarly to what our families did when they migrated here from, from, uh, east Africa or India, where they’ve from

Muhammad Kermalli: half an hour ago, you’re talking about the life you wanted was some exactly. Now you’re, you’ve shifted, mm-hmm in half an hour talking to you. The life you actually want is so you, you see at you’ve tasted that and you’re realize this is more valuable.


Mike Hemani: Yeah. Okay. [00:47:00] It’s exactly. That’s real. It’s something that you can actually hold onto

Muhammad Kermalli: and these people are telling you you’re capable of

Mike Hemani: something now. So when I have my wife telling you understand it, it, it really hit me. I, you know, I, I had to. Have a really hard look at myself, which I never wanted to.

I, wasn’t always afraid to look at myself. Right. Mm-hmm and give myself a hard look in the mirror and be like, you know, you gotta change yourself. You’ve got somebody that actually wants to be something with you when really right now at this very moment, you’re nothing, no matter how feared you are out there, or no matter how much Jordans or pairs of Gucci shoes or, or, or cars I’ve had, it doesn’t mean nothing.

and It’s not that I never knew that it’s just again, but to hear it, to hear it, it’s, it’s, it’s a whole different thing.

Right. So now that I’ve heard this, now that I’ve looked at myself in the mirror, I’m like, okay, you know what? This is gonna be the, the start of my journey. Mm-hmm , you know, and at that time, again, this is like, this is like five years ago, this just 5, 4, 5 years ago, it was [00:48:00] end of 2017 going into 2018 and going into ni and, and progressing into 2019.

You know, at that time, my credit was, was atrocious, atrocious as an understatement. You, um, because of the things I used to do, so

Muhammad Kermalli: you’re looking at this, like now you’re, you’ve got this motivation, you’ve got this belief, but you’re still aware that there’s this huge

Mike Hemani: mountain climb. I’ve got a huge mountain of climb.

Like, I mean, look, to build, to build your credit, especially in today’s. Climate that we’re in. It’s not easy. I’m still building my credit, but fortunately enough, I, I buckled down. I, you know, focused on my career. I, I, at that time I got, I got, uh, picked up by a great company. What are the things you did

Muhammad Kermalli: to

Mike Hemani: focus?

I’ll give you an example, mm-hmm , I’ve got, I’ve got one of my well, used to be a best friend. They used to be, but this is somebody I grew up with from day one. Okay. We went through the same thing today. Today. [00:49:00] He’s still doing the same thing. He’s still sitting in his garage. He’s still, you know, up all hours of the night.

I’m tired of it. I don’t want that, you know, this isn’t a line for you. He just doesn’t line for me. So, you know, I literally, I remember, I still remember, you know, I took a weekend, you know, I took a whole 48 hours sat on my phone.

Right. And delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, you know, that’s significant man. Like I’m sitting there in tears, like having to delete contacts off my phone or having to, you know, get off certain social media platforms or, you know, it’s just, if, if I, if there’s a, if there’s a way to contact me, I went even to the extent of even.

Changing my number. I mean, I have a, I grew up with a four 16 and a 6 47 mobile number. Yeah. What the, I have a 4 37 number now. What the hell is that? Like when I tell people I have a 4 37 number there’s there goes your celebrity status. Exactly. Are you kidding me exactly. Right. So it’s um, but you know what, I’m worth it, [00:50:00] worth it as an understanding I’m, you know, let’s just put it this way.

The, the, one of the, one of the first things I noticed after I started making my change and on this path and journey is I could walk outside my house and not have to worry about who’s watching me. I don’t have to worry about having a target on my back. And the thing is that if I continue to do what I was doing would, if my wife now and kid in my life, I’m not only putting myself in danger, I’m putting two other people at, at danger, have nothing to do with what I’ve done in my past.

You know? So I don’t wanna be that guy. I, I couldn’t take that responsibility. You know, I can deal with me. You know, being affected, but I, I can’t even imagine to begin to think of how that would’ve, what, how that would make me feel if God forbid knock on wood, something happened to my wife and kid, you know, but

Muhammad Kermalli: I’m, so that’s your motivation, that’s you find your motivation, you find your driver, you detach, you attach, and then you, you [00:51:00] start going to work.

Mike Hemani: Then I start going to work, you know, I I’m focus. I’m focused on my I’m very career focused up until now. You know, I’m very hungry. I’m, I’m good at what I do. You know? And, and honestly, this is just the beginning. Yeah. You know, I’m this, sky’s the limit. There’s, there’s more for me out there. And, you know, though, I went through what I went through.

I’ve always said to myself, you know, if there’s something I, I want, I’m gonna get it. Mm-hmm , I’m gonna get it. And I’m gonna have nobody stop me getting from what I want, you know?


Muhammad Kermalli: something you said, um, you know, like being able to walk into the club and being able to. Be that guy who everybody had eyes on, do you, you don’t miss any of that?

Mike Hemani: You know, I used to before. Yeah. You know, and it’s funny, my wife was having this conversation with me, you know, a couple weeks ago. It’s not like you’re like

Muhammad Kermalli: in just randomly, like, you’re like the sucker now aren’t you to

Mike Hemani: that guy, to be honest with you, you know, what, or are you, or sucker or who is the sucker to be with you?

Yeah. You know what, sometimes [00:52:00] in life, you know, if you want something great, you just gotta wait for him, be patient mm-hmm . You know? And when I look back at the people that I used to make fun of, for that I’m thinking to myself now, like, do I feel like a loser? You know, I I’m looking at myself, not in a bad way, but yeah.

You know, I’m saying to myself, you know what, I used to laugh at people that, that are waiting in line or doing the nine, the five, or doing, you know, doing all this hard work, the honest work, the honest work, you know? Okay. Um, but now that I’m in it, right. You know, and you know, Regardless of how well I’m doing at work.

You know, we all go through financial struggles. We all go through, especially in today’s climate that we’re in with this pandemic. Sure. And whatnot, you know, when I look at the problems that I have today, right. Versus the problems that I had back then, right. I, I’m so grateful for the problems for these problems that I’m having today.

Because again, you know, I’m not stressed about who’s coming for me. I’m not worried about it. Am I gonna make it through today to be able to make it through, to be able to get to the next day, to do what I need to do? You know what I mean? It’s, these are [00:53:00] problems that I, I’m not saying I enjoy having, but are manageable. now I’m starting to say, to discover other things about me and things that I’m going through with my wife, you know, there’s still little bits from my past, you know, like I was mentioning earlier before, you know, one of the, my core things. That’s a huge problem for me. And, you know, for the people that are surrounding me, that I love is, you know, Is the lying.

So yeah, Now I’m starting to discover therapy, right? So, um, Even though my first therapist didn’t work out. As I mentioned earlier, mm-hmm , you know, he, there was something that he actually, you know, made aware for me that I always thought was a huge deficit for me.

So growing up, you know, I’ve always had ADHD or whatever you wanna call it. Yeah. Okay. And I always thought that my ADHD was, or a D was a deficit. It was, you know, it has it right in

Triena McGuirk: the label. Right, exactly.

Mike Hemani: Right. Yeah. But he actually made me aware that just because you’re ADHD [00:54:00] or it’s not a bad thing. No, it’s actually a great thing.

Right. Because the way you look at, let’s say this book, mm-hmm right. I’m looking at it from a whole different, whole different lens

But one of the things that really has stuck that has stuck to me, um, and what’s really helping me through my journey is, you know, my, the, and this is what my therapist said. And it’s, it’s, it struck a huge chord in me. You know, you, he told me Zamo, you have to, in order to get to where you want to be, you have to learn to be.

comfortable with being uncomfortable. Mm-hmm and out of everything I’ve been through, I would say that’s probably the most hardest thing mm-hmm I’ve had to deal with. Yeah. You know? Yeah. We wanna be comfortable. We want to be comfortable, but who doesn’t wanna growth happens. Exactly.

Triena McGuirk: Exactly. Like think of a seed trying to, of push up all the earth.

Right. Like that’s uncomfortable and buried down. Yeah. That’s literally what it is.

Muhammad Kermalli: Right. [00:55:00] You know, so now before uncomfortable would take, you would make you revert now uncomfortable makes you look forward exactly to it. Is that, is that how it

Mike Hemani: feels for you right now? Exactly how it feels, but

Triena McGuirk: you’re, you’re succeeding. Cause you’re doing the work.

Mike Hemani: That’s actually success. If you,

Muhammad Kermalli: it is actual success. That is success. Thank you. It’s not someplace.

Triena McGuirk: Yeah. It’s, it’s a journey. It’s not, it’s not a destination.

I mean,

Mike Hemani: I still have a, it’s an attitude. Exactly. I still have, I still have a way to go. Yeah. Well

Triena McGuirk: it sounds like what you’re doing is internal family systems. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That’s what it sounds like you’re doing so exactly. When he’s speaking to the different parts of him, it’s not different personalities.

It’s just different. Um, when we develop adaptive skills to get through a trauma or to get through a crisis. So he has the rebellious version of himself. That was the protector, the one or deflected when you were uncomfortable. So that was, we all have these different parts and versions of ourselves that had like adaptive functions in a traumatic situation.

But those [00:56:00] parts of us become maladaptive later in life, such as you know, you were rebellious. So you learned to lie. So that’s maladaptive in an intimate relationship with your wife, obviously, of course, but it served every, all these parts of us served a purpose and it, so it’s looking at them. and so like, it’s, I always look at it therapy as kind of a spiral, like for myself as well.

Cuz you circle around things and you did get them, but then you come back at it and then you get more depth and understanding into that part of yourself. Exactly why you do those things.

Mike Hemani: So that’s what I’m currently going through in my last couple of sessions that, you know, let’s say three sessions ago, I discovered that there’s this internal family system.

Right. And you know, I’m discovering something, you know, about each family member in my system. Mm-hmm now, right now, all I’m seeing right now is the negative in it. You know, mm-hmm, , I’m not seeing the positive, which I’m sure at some point I will. Yes. As I go further more in, in, in, in, in, in my [00:57:00] sessions.

Right. It’s just, you know, when my therapist is telling, talking to me, he is telling me, look, you know, Don’t focus on the negative. And like you just said, mm-hmm, each part of me or each person, person of, you know, of me in that internal family system served a purpose. Mm-hmm , you know, so as negative as you feel about it, you know, they served, they served you right.

For something, you know, whether it’s child Maal or rebellious Maal or, or a Al they all served, served, or are still serving some form of purpose.

Muhammad Kermalli: Mm-hmm I gotta say something to you though. I’ve known you for years. Okay. I never seen you smile a you smile nowadays. Really? Yes. Mm-hmm a hundred percent.

I gotta say, man, that’s just like, it’s, it’s great to see. And when you talk about, how could you focus on this a little bit as a, as like a last word, but, or close to you, talk about how tough it is, but then you also talk about when I, I see what I have to look forward to, what is it that you look forward to?

What is


Mike Hemani: Describe that, [00:58:00] you know what it’s, um, it’s not easy to describe. Okay. You know, Whether it’s a feeling or whatever. What I look forward to is I mentioned it earlier before, you know, my wife and kids saved, saved me, you know? And my biggest motivation is that just like my wife, um, I’ve got little eyes looking up to me too.

So what I see at what the end goal is is that if I can provide for not just my wife, you know, cuz that’s a given, but if I can provide my kid, you know, the tools and, and resources for her to be a good human being for her to live a good life for me, that’s the goal. That’s, that’s the end result and anything I can do to, you know, protect her, guide her, show her that, you know, Let her know that look, you know, you can go through anything in life, whether it’s good or bad, it’s up to you to want more and up to you to, to, to want to be a good human being, not just for, for the people that are around you.

Like your, like me, [00:59:00] your mom, you know, your grandma, grandpa, but for yourself. And how does going through

Muhammad Kermalli: therapy get you

Mike Hemani: there? You know what it’s, it’s it it’s about just being vulnerable, you know, being vulnerable to the people that are around you being vulnerable to yourself, being true to yourself, you know, um, I can confidently say to myself today that you know, what I’m happy and content with the Moza today that I’m seeing the mirror or people that are seeing me like yourself and Katrina, you know, versus the Moza that used to see with the cloud over his,

Muhammad Kermalli: well, you know, there was always like, you know, uh, the tough guys, right.

Would, would look at it and say like, man, you’re just being weak. Now who’s tougher now, you know, was that guy tougher or is this guy stronger? Who’s been through more, who’s gotten up and, and gotten back at it. I, I certainly have an opinion as to who the tougher one is now. Right. But you know, all the things that you’ve wanted that you’ve aspired to, to be, and to want to do.

You’ve done. Yeah,

Mike Hemani: exactly. I think one of the. Greatest thing that you guys are doing with, with, [01:00:00] with this is, is that, you know, you’re, you’re getting people aware, you’re helping people through people, through other people’s stories. You know, if, um, and what I’m getting out of this is, is that, you know, is to let everybody know that, you know, you can go be going through whatever it is that it is that you’re going on and let it’s, you know, you just gotta make sure that, you know, you’re happy with yourself.

You have some sort of plan you, if you need to speak up, speak up, if you need to, you know, be vulnerable, be vulnerable, you know, there’s the there’s, don’t have, don’t have that fear that someone is gonna be judging. You don’t have that fear that someone is gonna take your past. Judge, you judge you based on that for the rest of your life.

I used to have that fear of myself, but now when people, when I tell people my story, you know, I’m, I’m. I feel like I’m, I’m, I’m letting go of my past. I’m you know, the more I speak about it, you know, even right now, um, you know, I feel like I’ve let go of things, you know, plus it’s giving me an opportunity as well, to let [01:01:00] people know that, uh, you know, this is not the Moza that you guys have seen grown up.

Mm-hmm , I’m not that person anymore. You know, this is an opportunity for me to clean my slate, to let everybody know that, you know what I’ve done work on myself. You know, now it’s up to you to it’s on you now to take it how you want. I’ve already said my piece, I’m already doing the I’ve already done the work.

I am still doing the work. It’s up to you now to, you know, how wanted, how you want that to sit with your, with you. Beautiful

Muhammad Kermalli: man. And you’ve got all the motivation in the world to do it, and you got a beautiful family there.

Um, so I can’t wait to, to hear the future versions right. Of what’s gonna be out there.