Overcoming the Fear of Saying No with Muhjahid Hemani

Mujahid Hemani: [00:00:00] I wanted to be that hot commodity that everyone needed at that time. Right. And, and exactly, you know, you hit you what would say yes to things that I didn’t necessarily wanna do, but I wanted to feel that need, I wanted to feel that people needed me all the time.

Right. Similar to optimist prime or, you know, Jason or Tommy from the power Rangers or Leonardo, because I wanted to be that guy. And that was my, that necessarily like, again, that was my defense mechanism. I’d always just say yes to everything in that sense, just to make sure that I was always looked at in a bright light more than anything else.

Mm-hmm . And did that make it better? It made it better for a while. And then when you come to the realization that people are using you, people are just looking at you for something quick, more, more than actually valuing who you are as an individual. And things just started crashing down,

Intro

Triena McGuirk: Okay. Today I’d like to welcome our guest Muja Jimani. Thank you for coming and joining us today. [00:01:00] Muja. Um, and then what I liked hearing about, um, his story is I just met him briefly before I came into recording. And one of the things that sticks out for me in hearing his story is really, um, how he’s come to incorporate mindset and discover what really aligns for him is like in his life and looking at it through process of evaluating what to say.

Yes, And the power of inviting what to say yes to in your life and how that actually helps contribute into feeling, um, more self worth value, and also having a, um, like a harmonious relationship with others you intersect with in your lives, maybe personal professional, because not knowing when to say no is sometimes a very big, challenging thing that a lot of us face.

And one of the things that I really loved, um, and I know we’re gonna learn a lot from speaking with you is, is not only what to say yes to and evaluating that, but the power of [00:02:00] also going back to things, you love things that nurture yourself that even if no one else in the world is interested in it, that’s okay.

If it serves a purpose for you and is of interest to you, there’s value to that. So welcome. And thank you so much for being here today.

Mujahid Hemani: Thank you for having me.

Start

Muhammad Kermalli: You know, before, before we get started, um, you’ve, you’ve, uh, maybe had some, some time to, uh, see our, our presentations, our previous episodes.

And I’d, I’d love to hear from your, from your vantage point, from your perspective, what do you, uh, what do you think of what we do and, and what do you see it as? What, how do you see?

Mujahid Hemani: Well, I think you’re like, it’s weird. Like you would think when watching it, you’re getting people at the most vulnerable point and discussing major things.

But when you go look at the flip side of things, people are not necessarily vulnerable. When they’re speaking with you guys, they’re more so like really [00:03:00] happy to open up about certain things that have happened. Certain things that they’ve been going through and things that they’ve actually doing right now.

So that’s what I really appreciate. Even how you guys are even asking the questions. Like sometimes it’s like really hard hitting. It could be a loaded question, but people seem to be open about everything that they’re talking about to you guys, which is awesome.

Muhammad Kermalli: How do you, um, how do you find, if any, if in any way, um, that it would benefit a viewer or how, what sort of value have you seen in it from what you’ve heard so far?

Mujahid Hemani: Well, my personal background, like being like from an immigrant family, we’re always told, like, there’s certain things that we’re not allowed to talk about. Right? There’s certain things that you don’t necessarily bring up. So the fact of the matter is like more often or not people are bringing up certain things that people always had thought about, but never really talked about or never really explored.

And the fact of the matter is that you’re able to hear people speak about things that you can only think of. And you’re like, wow, I wasn’t the only person going [00:04:00] through this. Yeah. Or, wow. There’s someone else out there that’s thinking the exact same way as me or wow. I can relate to something or I can look up to someone that possibly can even help me benefit or help me with my struggles as well.

Just by hearing someone else’s story.

Muhammad Kermalli: Was there anything specific that you, that you saw that you looked at and thought? Wow,

Mujahid Hemani: I think, um, was, was, it was, um, Mo’s interview with you guys when he was talking about his stuttering, right. That really like, considering like I’ve known Mo for such a long time. And it’s so funny.

I never under, I never like realized he had that stutter personally speaking. And it’s so funny that when he’s mentioning it and the struggles he goes, he struggles that he thought he thought was talking about. I never realized that, like I like, you know, when you, I, I also have other relatives that have yeah, yeah.

I have other relatives that have, uh, even more prominent stutter. And [00:05:00] for them, I always just like, I always tried to be more encouraging, but I never really asked what’s your struggles or anything like that too. Maybe because it was just me trying to be as helpful as possible when even just asking how you’re feeling about it could be more helpful than trying to cover it up or just telling them push forward.

Don’t worry. You know, it could have just been, I could have put myself in a better position for them or with them in that regard.

Muhammad Kermalli: So that’s interesting, um, that it actually gives you insights and, and, and ideas on how to actually make change. Yeah. Um, you know, uh, and so in terms of your own self, like, um, you know, I I’ve, like I said, you know, I’ve known you for, for a number of years, um, we’ve crossed paths probably in other areas of, um, you know, whether it’s community work that you do.

Uh, that that we’ve run into, you’ve always been in that sort of realm. And, [00:06:00] um, when I think of you, I think of, um, a guy who’s always been this, you know, outgoing guy, uh, leader, you know, this, these words kind of all come to mind, you have a, an award named after you in your high school, you know, like you’re prominent, you know, you’ve, uh, you’ve done some great things in, in a very short amount of time.

You’ve found yourself to the front of the pack, even though you are number two child . So there you are, you’re accomplished, you know, um, you, you got grit, you know, uh, you’re successful on so many levels. Um, you know, so that’s, that’s just kind of like how I’ve known you on the outside. And I, what I find is, is that that’s often the case with a lot of people, you see the, the part above the water, you know, the iceberg, and then there’s their.

There’s the rest of the, the most of the iceberg, which we don’t see. Um, and so I really appreciate you coming out [00:07:00] today with us and having this conversation with us, uh, about what others haven’t seen. And do you, do you feel though that by, you know, looking at having that type of conversation, you know, that there there’s gonna be things that wow, like, I don’t know, man, if I want people knowing this about me or that I have this feeling, how, how do you feel about getting into a conversation like that?

Mujahid Hemani: It’s funny because, you know, as you grow up, sometimes you might revert to a childhood trauma or a childhood memory, which makes you go back to that sensation that necessarily, you know, might not like when you were growing up, but it’s bound to happen because I think like life is a full cycle. I remember going through struggles as a kid, just trying to find out who I am as an individual.

And then a little bit actually happening again now in my older age, right. That are people really [00:08:00] seeing me for me again or not. Right. Have I just created this whole facade about myself? Right. So growing up again, I’ve always been on the heavier side of the spectrum. So a lot of people dismissed me for that reason.

I never used to be more talkative. I used to be more the quiet child growing up. Um, I always never looked really looked up to like, it’s gonna be weird saying human beings in regards to like role models. I always wanted to be optimist prime in the transformers. I always wanted to be Tom engaged from power Rangers.

I always wanted to be Leonardo in the leadership role that he did in the ninja turtles. Like that those were my inspirations growing up. Right. So it’s weird. Like some cuz and, but that was just me. That was, that was my interest growing. So I knew at some point I’m not too sure if there was a switch, I’m not too sure what it was in my brain.

That goes, how do I be the person [00:09:00] that stops going to people for help all the time and how am I gonna help myself get to a position where I want to be. Right. And

Muhammad Kermalli: so do you think that it started maybe by, I mean, when you, when you say that they weren’t humans, the thing that comes to my mind is that it was, you were living in a fantasy man.

Um, and, and you, I’m a huge, big dreamer.

Mujahid Hemani: I’ll tell you that much.

Muhammad Kermalli: so, so people who are, who fantasize, um, right. Just by calling it a fantasy, uh, except that it’s a, it’s a detachment from reality. Yep. And so was there a part of you that felt that this is just a fantasy that this is never gonna be? I can, I can look up to Leonardo and I want to be that guy, but I’m on the bigger end of the spectrum, like you just said, And that’s not gonna happen because guys like us, we don’t get there.

We that’s just good for fantasy. You ever had that

Mujahid Hemani: feeling? Yeah, I, I [00:10:00] did. And you know what? I would say it was watching power Rangers. For me, I’m a huge power ranger nut. Um, I still watch power Rangers still this day because I love it. Like, forget about the people, say the violence aspect of it, but it really goes to show like struggles that people have growing up.

It talked about individual stories. It talked about overcoming adversities. It talked about those things and those things. I looked at it this way. If something, if something I can relate to more and learn from it better, why not follow that route than having someone talk to me all they want, but I’m not getting, it’s not getting through.

So like, were there qualities

Triena McGuirk: that those characters had that you like, that you identified with that you,

Mujahid Hemani: yeah, it really like, okay, if you guys do know power ranger history, you know, like one of the characters taught me, he was like the evil green ranger and became good. Right. And for me, I resonated with that because I was always angry as a child.

I was always that person who always had a problem. I [00:11:00] had asthma. I couldn’t run as fast as the other person. Again, I was on the bigger side of the spectrum. I was the second child and in an extended household, I was kind of the middle child. So I always felt forgotten. I, I always felt displaced. And to see someone go through that adversity feeling the same way I did.

And at the end of the day, coming out at the better end, why can’t that also happen for me? Mm-hmm right. And, and again, when you go to see all these, these pop culture, or, you know, cartoon shows. It’s it’s to inspire kids and to help them realize that we all have the potential to be great, but it’s up to you to actually start doing it.

Right. And it’s so funny because now in, in my older age, you see so many things on social media about like, self-help on how to be a better person, how to do this better, how to do that better, but it’s, and they always tell you, but it has to be upon you to get up and go start doing it. How do you [00:12:00] go ahead and start doing those type of things?

Right. And, and that’s when I started doing that at a younger age. But, but

Muhammad Kermalli: when you were a younger kid, you weren’t reading

Mujahid Hemani: self-help books. No, exactly. I only had power Rangers and ninja turtles to rely on at that point. Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: So, so you got this, um, you can look at, you know, uh, a ninja turtle and I, I think I, I agree with you.

I think that’s why they’re stories like that and, and shows like that and cartoons like that, whatever series like that, that’s why they’re out there. Right. They’re there to. You know, kids or the kid in us, whatever you wanna call it, you know, a, a way to sort of look at it, even though it’s fictional. Yep.

Right. And, and then we start looking at how we can take it from fiction and fantasy and be inspired to then make it a reality for ourselves. But you know, when you first start looking and having those thoughts, it’s nice because you, you have that. How long was the show? Like half an hour, right? These cartoons are half an hour at time.

So [00:13:00] there for half an hour, you feel good cuz you’re that you, you can sort of live by curiously through that ninja turtle. Right. And you’re, you’re part of that story. You feel like you’re, you’re relating to that, but then the show’s over and you go back to reality, you know, and you’re still, you know, at the fastest you still have asthma.

You’re still number two in the extended family. You’re still all these things. The world hasn’t really changed nor you

Mujahid Hemani: for me. that’s when, like, everything kind of hits you, right? You’re you’re right. Like your half hour of being in this fantasy world is over now back to reality. So now I had to figure out ways how to make my reality, not necessarily a fantasy, but how to make my reality enjoyable.

Right. It’s like, you know, when you go on a vacation, but it’s raining all weekend mm-hmm and if you wanna have, if you wanna have a crappy time, you’re gonna have a crappy time thinking, well, it’s [00:14:00] raining. What do I do? And I always used to say this, like later on, like once I realize, like you have to make it your own, go out in the rain, have some fun, there’s nothing wrong with taking a hike in the rain.

It’s actually even more peaceful, more enjoyable. You might some get some great photos. That way, there’s nothing wrong with, you know, cosing up near a campfire. If, you know, if you’re, if that’s what your vacation is and while it’s raining, like there’s nothing wrong with those type of things. It’s mindset at the end of the day.

So yeah, I knew that in that, in that half hour time being in that fantasy, how do I take that enjoyment and consistently keep it in my reality? And it’s all on how I, you know, approach things right. For the first time, if I had an opinion on something, I should actually voice my opinion and taking that risk and putting myself out there more than anything else.

Muhammad Kermalli: And, and so I was just about to ask you about that. So you started forming, you know, strategies or, or starting, [00:15:00] you know, tactics on starting to make your reality enjoyable. And as, as you started doing that, obviously now you’re, you’re tinkering with the environment and the ecosystem and the ecosystem and environments that we’re all a part of.

Have defense mechanisms to maintain the status quo?

Mujahid Hemani: Yep. My defense mechanism was always the, I was always the, yes, man. It’s so funny that you bring that up. And I was always the yes man. My, because again, I went from an angry kid to realize that I have to make my own reality better. And my defense mechanism to make sure that I always stay above or, or idolized was always to say yes to everything that I was told.

Give

Muhammad Kermalli: an example that

Mujahid Hemani: you can share. Um, you know, it could be if, if I was interested in something and my parents said, well, we need help to do this. Or you have to be there that weekend for a certain family event that necessarily I didn’t have to be there, but I would just always say, yes, [00:16:00] are you available this weekend?

Even though I had plans, you’re not sorry. You’re not saying no, no, I’m not saying, say no, your parents, but it’s the small examples. Like if, if I had plans with someone else already. But I felt another person had, was like, I really could use someone to talk to. It’s like, okay, I’ll cancel those plans and hang out with you.

Or it’s weird to bring up examples, like on the spot like that, because, but again, I was the yes guy. I was always looking at

Triena McGuirk: what I’m is. Even if you didn’t wanna do it, you still did it because you wanted to show up for people. And then you showing up for yourself is

Muhammad Kermalli: what, so that made you, that made you more valuable to them?

Mujahid Hemani: Yeah, again, it was to look that at valuable aspect, I wanted to be that hot commodity that everyone needed at that time. Right. And, and exactly, you know, you hit you what would say yes to things that I didn’t necessarily wanna do, but I wanted to feel that need, I wanted to feel that people needed me all the [00:17:00] time.

Right. Similar to optimist prime or, you know, Jason or Tommy from the power Rangers or Leonardo, because I wanted to be that guy. And that was my, that necessarily like, again, that was my defense mechanism. I’d always just say yes to everything in that sense, just to make sure that I was always looked at in a bright light more than anything else.

Mm-hmm . And did that make it better? It made it better for a while. And then when you come to the realization that people are using you, people are just looking at you for something quick, more, more than actually valuing who you are as an individual. And things just started crashing down, right? Like again, I had that, I had a really good conversation with a teacher of mine back in high school that would always tell me, Maja, you have all these people around you right now.

You could have a million friends right now, but good luck in five years after university, or even during university, if you even have five friends from high school. [00:18:00] And I was like, no, Mr. Smith, you’re completely wrong. Every all 30 of my friends in high school, my whole entire grade 12 class were gonna be friends forever.

You know, friends forever. That’s what it was. It was like a saved by the bell episode. It was friends forever. That’s what it was, but it’s not it’s in, in, in reality. It’s not. Yeah. And, and I think it’s when I met my, my girlfriend now wife, at the time back in university, she made me realize cuz she cared for me in other ways that other people didn’t, she made me realize how used I was be I was being or how people used me or abused me for my opinions, my thoughts, my car, or just saying yes to everything because they know people can rely on Maja all the time, but what was I doing for myself?

What was I doing for my partner at the time I was neglecting all that. So while,

Muhammad Kermalli: while people are looking to use Maja and Maja, also getting [00:19:00] fulfillment of like I’m important. right. And you had to, at some point in time, reconcile that in your head saying that if I stopped doing this, I’d lose that. Right.

Mm-hmm . And, and I, so you considered that obviously, cause that, that is the golden

Triena McGuirk: you was speaking to before was, uh, a change in mindset. And that’s not an easy thing to do that. It. it’s a super easy thing to say and pass by, but that is a really difficult moment is to change your mindset around things.

So in with your, um, girlfriend now wife bringing awareness to her perception of how you were being used by people by saying yes all the time. So what was the mindset shift for you that had to take place to be able to a recognize that, and then two, a B do something about [00:20:00] it because that’s, those are, those are difficult steps, cuz like what Muhammad was saying, there’s people are not gonna like it when we put boundaries in place, right.

They, they want us to keep doing the things that we do for them. And then sometimes we energetically or physically or financially or whatever, for whatever reason. We can’t always give that or be everything to everyone all the time. So what was your

Muhammad Kermalli: experience also? Let me add to that too, in the question here, Trina, is that, even that though, even before you made that mindset, you

Mujahid Hemani: did ask for it.

Yeah. Oh yeah.

I

Muhammad Kermalli: completely take,

Mujahid Hemani: but you wanted that a absolutely. And it’s funny because again, my, my, my girlfriend wife at the time, she’s like, try it. She goes, let’s have a, let’s have a, a friendly bet here. Say no for the first time to someone who can you consistently ask yes to and see how long or how often they message [00:21:00] you.

Mm-hmm , you know, it’s like that friendship test, right? Who’s really your friend out there. That’s gonna, you message someone, you know, some people might have that friend that you message after six months and you’re still good friends. It doesn’t matter how much time passes mm-hmm or message that person.

Or you have to message those person on a daily basis. Right. So again, it became like that struggle. Like I had to maintain so many relationships. So going back to it, like my wife’s like, just before you did

Muhammad Kermalli: that, though. Yeah. You must have had the thought, okay, well, if I did this and then what if I find out they’re not all my friends or what if I find out that I’m actually not wanted,

Mujahid Hemani: like did that, and that’s the thing that’s, that’s, that’s the trauma that takes you back to being a child again.

Right? It’s it’s, that’s what it was. And, and that’s what exactly what happened? I said, no, I started saying no to some people. I started putting myself and my, my, my, myself first for the first time. And I started saying no to people and people didn’t like [00:22:00] it. People stopped talking to me. People just didn’t want anything to do with me as a whole, just because I started saying no.

And that felt good. It felt good that I had, I was trying to get control over. What I wanted in my life, but it felt horrible in a sense where I just started losing people and that sense of need, and I was trying to lose that. So now I’m in a new position where I’m focusing on myself, which is great for my mental health, iCal health too, at the same time.

And really focusing on people that actually care about me. But that sense of need is starting to leave that sense of need or someone needing me is starting to leave. Um, like tenfold, like people were just dropping like flies because I wasn’t available anymore. Or I didn’t say yes to everything, or I wanted to do this instead of what they were doing.

Right. And [00:23:00] so you get back into that state, where am I all alone again? Am I that kid who. who is just gonna be passed on, am I that person that no one really wants to hang out with care about or anything like that? Am I have I become the second more than the first to in everyone? Eyes, you revert back to that.

Yeah. And I find that’s the weird part, because again, like you grow up thinking of the person you want to be, you get to that point, it’s not necessarily, that’s the person you actually wanna be. Cuz there’s so much either consequences or, or rules behind being that type of person. And then when you actually wanna be the, your true self people might not like it mm-hmm

Muhammad Kermalli: so now people don’t like your true self

Mujahid Hemani: people.

Some people don’t like my true self. No. And they can go fly kites I’m at that point

Muhammad Kermalli: so you find, but no, but way you finally got there, like you just said, [00:24:00] I think that’s the interesting part is that that’s precisely what you wanted. to overcome the first time. Yeah. Which made you say, which made you become a yes person.

And, and I think this is really important for, for many people to, to really like pause on and think about, because it’s that very, it’s a very same feeling that we’re looking to bury. Right. Of, I kind of might not like who I am or don’t feel my value. And then my value becomes now attached to how useful I am to others.

Right. And so now I go, I feel, okay, well, that’s the value formula that you, you must have been using. Like it’s based on how useful I am to others. And then up the useful to others and my value goes up and now you’re feeling very, very valuable. But then, you know, with, with some influence, you say, I’m gonna, I’m gonna like take another [00:25:00] route and your usefulness to others goes down.

And your value perception of yourself goes back down again. So all that time that you’re a yes, man, really your value. Wasn’t going up, just your usefulness to others word. That’s what you exactly. Okay. So you discover this and now you come back to

Triena McGuirk: sometimes it’s the perception of value too, right? You don’t always see that these relationships are not necessarily giving back to you.

Right. So,

Mujahid Hemani: absolutely. And it’s it’s it’s I always tell people, I I’m I’m I’m I’m I’m I’m at a point where I’m exploring pretty let’s to say I’m back at that exploratory phase. Because again, I don’t like listening to human beings. I rather look, watch TV and movies that inspire me to make me realize cuz it’s so funny.

My wife could tell me something one day I could watch the same, the same moral of what she was trying to get at. I could watch it in a movie and relate better. then listening to her and she [00:26:00] always does this. She was like, see, I told you this, this is exactly what I told you. She goes, yeah. But you didn’t explain it in such a way that this person did.

Right. It’s always that type of thing. So right now me as an individual yeah, me as an individual right now, I, this is, this is me. I’m the type of person. If, if you, if you knew, if you know me from my past and you needed someone to talk to, you need some help. I will answer my phone and I will help to my best capacity.

So if I can loan you 10 bucks, I’ll loan you 10 bucks. If I can loan, if you’re asking me for $5,000, sorry, I can’t do that. You know, I I’m, I’m measuring things out a lot better than maybe some I’m measuring things out better than I ever have. Let’s just say, because now do you feel better about yourself that you do that now?

I, I feel amazing that I do that. because it’s because I couldn’t the same relationship I had with someone since grade [00:27:00] four is not the same relationship I had with someone I just met last week. Right. And I used to put everyone on the same spectrum. Sometimes everyone I met everyone who knew me was important to me, access to everything.

Yeah. Yeah. Ex that’s what it was exactly what it was, whether it was ex you know, joining a new network of people, whether it was meeting someone who is a high level executive at a, at a company, everyone was important to me. And, and needless to say, like, even in, in business, like the person who was like the warehouse worker to the CEO, like they’re, those two people should be important to some people because without the warehouse worker, how does the CEO prosper?

But without leadership from the CEO, how does the warehouse person prosper? And like now I’m trying to find that new balance where the relationships that I have are completely D. That person. I have still best friends with that. I consider our brother since grade four is not the [00:28:00] same person I met last week.

And I just had a great conversation with, I have to build new relationships, you know, in, in relationships. It’s kind of like, you know, testing one another, you know, you know, when you meet someone for the first time, at what level of respect do you have for that person to listen to them, to understand their full story, to wanna get to know them.

And there’s some people who just don’t give you a care in the world and you can, don’t have to put that person on a pedestal or on a level or on any spectrum. They’re just a person that just passed by in your journey of life. Let’s just say mm-hmm , that’s all they were, they were a pass buyer. That’s it?

So what

Triena McGuirk: I’m hearing from and correct me if I’m wrong. So I’m just trying to, um, contain what you said. Cause there’s a lot of knowledge there.

Mujahid Hemani: So I do apologize. I ramble a lot, so

Triena McGuirk: rambling. It’s good. It’s good. It’s not Ram at all. It’s what, like I’m what I’m hearing is. As you’ve, as you’ve learned really your own worth, really, because this is about your self worth [00:29:00] and, and giving your time and energy and resources or whatever would that be to the relationships in your life?

And what I’m hearing you say is you used to give everything to everyone all the time, but now you realize like these, um, kind of foundational relationships like your grade four friend, is someone that does have access to the full gamut, but you’re no longer just offering that to everyone else. And it seems like you’re placing, like, I guess boundaries might be a good word, like boundaries around your relationships.

Then that way, you know, like this, this relationship serves this purpose and it’s not all encompassing of my best friend, family member, professional resources, but they’re gonna just have access to this part of you and you’ll have access to this part of you. So then you’re not. So depleted, is that, does that make sense?

Is that like what you’re saying?

Mujahid Hemani: Yeah, absolutely. I think when you grow up, you’re trying to figure out, you have to kind of categorize relationships. Like what’s a [00:30:00] true acquaintance, what’s a friend, what’s a good friend, right? What’s a best friend. What’s a colleague, you know, those type of things that people try to categorize, or you put people into different categories, not in a bad sense, but in a sense where, like, how do you benefit some relationships?

Yeah, exactly. Right. Like for instance, like I must have a lot of people on LinkedIn as a network that I can reach out to do I talk to every single person on my LinkedIn network? No, do I like every single thing that a person on LinkedIn posts? No, but if I needed someone that was in that specific field, I might not have talked to that person in years, but I know that they’re part of a network that I can reach out to that.

Hey, how’s it going? X, Y, Z. I haven’t talked to you in a while. Uh, do you mind if you can help me out with this and they’re gonna bluntly tell me yes or no, that’s it. And I have to, I, I struggled with that. I struggled telling people no. Or telling people like, no, I, I can’t help you. Like, it’s just, it’s really gonna [00:31:00] hurt me or it’s not gonna necessarily benefit me, but it’s gonna do something within me that I don’t like.

Muhammad Kermalli: You know what I think? Um, actually, as you’re talking about what I think changed is not the yes or the, no, I think what changed was the why? So like when you, when you think about, when you said at first, why you were doing it was because, you know, it gave you a sense of value. Yeah. But now why you do it is not, cuz it has anything to do with value on you.

It has to do with value. On the other side, um, you yourself say like my friend from grade four is not the same person I just met last week. See, that’s a, why. Um, whereas before it was just as much as possible. Why? Because it gives me more value in order for that to change your perception, your sense of self value had to change first mm-hmm so what I’m curious to [00:32:00] know, is it, when did that start changing?

So you talked about your, your, his wife putting it out. Yeah. Influencing you, but, you know, so somebody else saw value in you. That was, that was, um, that was exclusive of your usefulness to others. Right. They saw the value and then clearly somebody cared for you right. Deeply. So

what, what I’m gathering from, from, from that ex, from just watching that experience is that. You started realizing your value and somebody had to tell you this, but even after somebody had to tell you this, you had to believe at some point in time that you are your value, your perception of your value is not just how useful

Mujahid Hemani: you are to others.

Muhammad Kermalli: So for me, [00:33:00] yeah, that’s what I’m curious to know. So that started formula that or reformulating that

Mujahid Hemani: I think so halfway through university, I started, I was being told, like people were using youth and then I had to start reevaluating things on the other side of the spectrum. I had major case of FOMO, like fear of missing out.

Like, so I felt like by saying no to people, I wasn’t gonna get invited to certain places and. I wasn’t, I was gonna miss out on like great times. Right. So those were a couple of factors that I had to consider, but slowly like people just started. Did you,

Muhammad Kermalli: how did you deal with that? What did you say to yourself?

That’s a real thing. Like if I don’t, it’s a hard

Triena McGuirk: one getting over fear missing out is not

Mujahid Hemani: an easy hurdle I actually had to. I had to that part. [00:34:00] Yeah. I had to really reevaluate like those times when I was a kid hanging out by myself and had to realize like, it’s okay to hang out for yourself. Sometimes it’s okay to take time for yourself and not have anyone around you.

My, my, my wife worked retail. There was some times that she wasn’t able to hang out. That’s what it was and I had to be alone. And I really had to be comfortable in, in my alone time and being okay by myself and not realizing that I needed. 30 people around me at a given time that took a long time that took a long time to get used to.

So

Muhammad Kermalli: initially you were not okay with being alone.

Mujahid Hemani: Oh, no, I was not okay with it. I, I felt consistently felt jittery like, well, what’s going on? What am I doing? I would be on social media, checking on every single person that I know like, well, why wasn’t I invited to that event? Did I do this to that person?

Did I do that to that person? Did I say something wrong? [00:35:00] I was literally having a crisis of like anxiety provoking. Yeah, it’s extremely. And that’s the first time where I felt like, I think it’s the first time I had a panic attack. Mm-hmm as well. And just realizing like you had a panic attack. I, I think I had a panic attack because realizing that like, like, what am I doing?

Is this what I really want? Is, is this really gonna be my life? and having a panic attack attack that like, I’m not important. I’m not this, I’m not that like, again, like you, you set up this identity of who you are for such a long time, or how people not necessarily identity, like how people perceive you for such a long time.

And now all of a sudden it’s flipped. It’s different. And some people like change. Some people didn’t like change, but at that time I didn’t like that change. And I had a panic attack. Mm-hmm for the first time, you know, there’s this thing

Muhammad Kermalli: I, I read the other day about the difference

Mujahid Hemani: [00:36:00] between

Muhammad Kermalli: being alone and feeling lonely.

And, um, they said the difference between being alone and feeling loneliness, changes with one simple little thing, loving the person you’re alone with. You can love the person. Yeah. If you can learn, love yourself and see you value in yourself. Yeah. You can be alone. But you’ll never be lonely. Mm-hmm . Yeah.

And, and that’s what seems to have started to happen, but it happened to you in, in, in, it seems like it, it reversed first, you had to be alone and feel lonely. Then you had to go, I don’t like this feeling, but I’m not gonna go that way. Like, it’s not like it was a waste of time because you did try a route and you, you know, like it’s like, you couldn’t have trusted that that was not real unless you had tried it.

And now you can say [00:37:00] I tried it. I was a yes, man. I was useful to a lot of people, but I had no real value of my own mm-hmm and I can tell you that that does not work. So then you don’t go back to that. You don’t relapse on it. Yeah. You go, I gotta do something else. Like where I’m at right now. Sucks. I’m having a panic attack.

I do feel lonely. Mm-hmm but I’m not gonna go that way, right? Yeah. And then what did you do.

Mujahid Hemani: so I try to fill in the gaps, right? Like my wife told me like, well, what, what do you want to do that you haven’t done in a long time by yourself? So now everyone has left. You just pretend it just me. Yeah. We’re we’re, we’re not, we’re not, we’re not together all the time.

Of course, me and my wife, we all have our, we have our separate lives too. We have work, whatever the case may be, but now there’s no one to hang out with. Well, what do you do? Well, you, you

Muhammad Kermalli: try to find what did, what did she say to you?

Mujahid Hemani: Find what she, she goes, find, find things that you love to do again. Yeah.

Find himself. Yeah. By [00:38:00] yourself. So funny enough, I, I started doing two things, Uhhuh one. I started cooking again. I love cooking and I love, I try to pick up new hobbies. I try to pick up new hobbies, like, or learning how to make dough or just doing those type of things for myself. And funny enough, the other thing I started, like, no, no, like, like, like bread dough and pizza dough and everything.

yeah, there you

Triena McGuirk: business.

Mujahid Hemani: And the second thing I started doing in was actually, uh, building Lego. I’m a huge Lego builder stop. Oh. I just, I actually bought a new set last week, so you’re still doing it. I’m still doing it. I’m still doing it

Muhammad Kermalli: now. This

Mujahid Hemani: is like, yeah, like I, I was [00:39:00] building Lego one as a young kid. And then again, I started back again in university as well, but it’s a very

Triena McGuirk: exercise.

Right. You have very present. You’re very,

Mujahid Hemani: yeah. You’re in your zone. Like how quickly can I build this thing? There’s a 5,000 pieces. Let’s clean it out and it’s and you really get to. You actually get to know yourself a lot when you’re building Lego. And I’ll tell you why, because are you that person that opens the bags, dumps everything out and just starts looking for the pieces?

Or are you that person who’s organizing all the pieces and then starting to build what type of person are you? Right. And it’s so funny, cuz like, are you that person who’s extremely organized or you’re the person who goes, well, let’s find the way mm-hmm you know, that type of deal. And I was really taking like both approaches.

I’m the find the way type of person. I like to open the bag, scatter, all the pieces. Not necessarily put all the like pieces together, but I like the search that’s that’s how I like

Muhammad Kermalli: it. It’s amazing bank trainer. Like, you know, somebody can say [00:40:00] find yourself or somebody can say, go cook, go play with. right.

Like, I mean, that’s the that’s to me, the big, the big discovery. Well,

Triena McGuirk: it’s reconnecting and I feel like you and I have both done this, like when I’m hearing, um, his story, like I went through very similar experience. And so part of mine was that inability to be alone and inability to literally stop moving and always needing to feel productive.

I became an absolute workaholic, absolute workaholic. If I didn’t have my children, I was working all the time. And when I started to put the boundaries in place too, the same as you, people do disappear in a major way and it’s incredibly uncomfortable. But then, um, now I’m, you switched to a point where you reconnect with yourself.

So I started swimming and I remember you saying you started back with TaeKwonDo and you start appreciating yourself more. And now I just had this conversation with a friend of mine the other day. She’s like. [00:41:00] Trina, you need to come around, you need people, you need to be around people more and, and social.

And she’s a very extroverted social person. And like, I need a fourth of the cup of social interaction. You need to be able to carry myself. like, I, uh, I’m actually at a point where I’m like, man, I got four days to myself. This is amazing. And I’m totally okay. I don’t need to talk to anyone or see anyone, but everyone has their own, um, we all need to be alone and we all need to be with people like we’re social creatures, but all of us have our own balance within it, for what we need to fill our own cup and then to help others.

And I think that’s really the essence of what you’re talking about here is we we’ve all fallen off this path, but come back to it. Right.

Mujahid Hemani: It it’s, it’s more so like, like I said, it’s a balancing act too, right? For me. Yeah. Like during COVID I don’t like working from home. I hate it. Like, I like that social interaction in terms [00:42:00] of a work environment, more than anything else.

But then again, on the end of the spectrum, like that’s work and after work, if I’m by myself doing nothing, I’m okay with that. Now. Like I’m happy

Muhammad Kermalli: you started before you can learn to like yourself, you gotta learn about yourself first. Like you, you can’t, you can’t get to the liking until you get to the knowing

Mujahid Hemani: first mm-hmm

Exactly. Exactly. And now I have a, I have a little daughter now, too. Right. So now it’s like, it’s weird because now like you’d always want the best for your kids. Right? So you try to instill like, like she’s young, like I’m, I’m trying to play Lego with her. It’s not working out. She’s just throwing all the blocks, but you know, it’s, it’s, it’s like, wow.

It’s like, okay, now I have a new role to fill my time with. Am I getting a new sense of want and need like being valued? Yeah, I am. I’m getting that point because that’s my kid and she does need me. All the time. Right. Or spending more time with my wife now more than anything else, because they [00:43:00] need me, that’s my family, you know, or, or just trying to plan something with friends that I haven’t seen in a long time, because they actually want to meet up.

Yeah. It’s these new things that are coming about that are actually bettering myself and making me feel like this is who I’m supposed to be as an individual. Maybe I’m really trying to find myself now and do these type of things.

Muhammad Kermalli: Well, I’d love to go back to that, to that breakthroughs part with that you were at, because I think all of that leads to this.

Right. And, and when you started doing the, the cooking and the, the Lego and you know, making no, I mean, I love that that’s so that, that just tells you how many different ways there are for people to do it. And you lined it up with what you were interested in. And I, I like what you said. I think it’s either your wife said it, or you said it where.

Go back to doing that. You know, it, it was like you got away from, we got away from something and then, [00:44:00] then we go back to doing it again. And then there’s that discovery of the self. And then you’re like, Hey, I’m not actually such a bad person. And I actually don’t need a lot of people to find me useful to them.

You have that, when did that start actually happening? When did that start happening? As a, as a thought that actually happened as a, as a, as an actual conscious thought.

Mujahid Hemani: So the, it started happen

Muhammad Kermalli: and then it started leading you to saying no, right? Like not having to say yes all the time.

Mujahid Hemani: Right. So starting to say no to people happened midway through university and it didn’t happen with like a lot of people, it just started happening with like, like it was like bunches at a time.

Right. It’s getting to realize like, yeah, it’s a process of elimination. Like I agree with you. I know what you mean. Right. So I would say like, it, like this process. what year is it? 2022. this process has been like anywhere between last past eight to five years has really started. Right. [00:45:00] And imagine like, it’s still, it’s still a process, like anything else, right.

I’m still going through the motions and whatnot too. But eight years ago I can honestly say is when I started saying no to people. And then within the last five years, I’ve really been able to realize what I want out of life. Start focusing on myself more in that regard. And whoever wants to join me along my journey or along the way come right on board.

That’s that’s my mindset. It’s like the Warrior’s way, you know, like Maja means warrior. Right? So I always take that warrior culture very seriously. Like growing up, it could have been like the lone Wolf and then later on it was leading the pack and now it’s more so, um, You know, now I’m starting a new journey and you know, along the journey, you see those and remember that movie, the princess bride, right?

Like along the way, you’ll pick up STRs that [00:46:00] like, that, like you, for your company that like you, for who you are, or look up to you for who you are, and they wanna help you along the journey, as opposed to just being a, a, a person that just pops up when they were whenever they wanna pop up. Mm-hmm, , I’m in that, I’m in that stage right now that come join me, follow along the fellowship.

You know, that’s what it is. And those are the relationships that I’m building now that have been more meaningful than anything else in my life. Prior to when,

Muhammad Kermalli: when you were, um, when you were going to that, to that part where, um, you know, you’re, you’re discovering the person, you like the person who you’re discovering, what did you find out?

That you liked about yourself because when you first started, you talked about how I’m on the big end of the spectrum. I’m second. I’m this I’m that? Nothing that you would say that you liked about yourself now you’re starting to like yourself. Mm-hmm so what did you start liking about yourself? Why are you so likable?

[00:47:00] Muja

Mujahid Hemani: I’m happy. One thing I thank you so much. one thing I like about myself still is that, um, my voice, right? I, I have a loud voice and that’s one thing that when I made that change as a child, I never lost. I like to make sure I’m heard. I like to make sure that I can still carry a room, tell a good joke, you know, be out there, be someone that people want to listen to.

I’m happy. That’s one of the main things I love about myself that people actually want to listen to me. And whether that’s something that I changed as a child. And even though I say no to people, or even though there’s that switch in me, that I’m doing things differently, that one aspect has never left, which is amazing for me, um, that I love about myself, that people still wanna listen to what I have to say.

Right. I said it before, like [00:48:00] I’ve been through so many experiences that I would want people to listen to or want people to hear. Right. And so, like I say, life’s a story and it’s all about being a good storyteller, but how do you compel people? Right. I never listen to my wife or my partner telling me what what’s good.

And what’s not, I like to watch like movies and sitcoms and cartoons to get the message across to me. Like, so how can I be as animated to people or as influential to people as possible that they will wanna listen to what I have to say. So that’s one thing I love about myself now that I never rich necessarily liked before.

Or not necessarily like before, I never really realized my power in that regard. So that’s one thing. The other thing is I’m almost paid, oh my gosh, this is, yeah. There’s more, there’s more than that, right? There’s at least two. There’s always has to be at least two things. I always like things. Right. Um, what I love about myself now is I’m, I’m comfortable in my own skin.

Like [00:49:00] I, I got confidence when I was younger to put myself out there and now I’m more confident in myself that I like the way I look like. Yeah. There’s obviously I can work out more. I can lose a little bit of weight. I can be healthier. Those are good things that I myself are looking forward to do. And I’ve done it before and I can do it again, but I’m happy in my own skin.

I don’t have to be. Ripped. I don’t have to be chiseled. I don’t have to look a certain way or I, I can grow a big beard and I’m okay with it. Or I don’t have to have a bald head. I’m okay. With long hair. Like I’m okay with being in my own skin. I’m confident in who I am as what I look like and, and who I, what I put out there,

Muhammad Kermalli: you know, that’s interesting because that’s, that’s the very thing that might get people to call you in the first place.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, but instead of now you attributing value to them calling you. You’re just sticking with the value itself, which is what you have.

Mujahid Hemani: You hit the nail on the coffin right there. [00:50:00] It’s the value itself. Right. It’s it’s not necessarily feeling valuable, but I know I have value to give, forget about feeling valuable.

Right. It’s and that doesn’t change. It doesn’t change. And that doesn’t change and it’s not value

Muhammad Kermalli: is

Triena McGuirk: always there. Yeah. Yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: So that’s, that’s a huge breakthrough man. Like to have that, because once you have. Then, you know, like what’s gonna stop Muja

Mujahid Hemani: yeah. You’re man. It’s funny because like, I was unstoppable.

I felt unstoppable before, but now I even feel, I feel indestructible now how about that? Right. Just the, just the nude mindset that,

Muhammad Kermalli: that, you know, I love where you’re at today. And I think, you know, where you’re at today speaks a lot to like what you’ve gone through. Right. But what’s interesting is that you could feel, you know, and it’s even harder sometimes for people like you, because you might start off feeling really, really strong.[00:51:00]

And for those who feel really, really strong who go through that it’s even, even it’s a higher fall, right? Like if somebody didn’t feel strong to begin with, ah, okay. So you’re not wanted it’s okay. Right. But if somebody’s really feeling strong and that person falls, that person falls further. Right. And then to get up from that point is even harder to get back.

Yeah. So, so, so the breakthroughs are even harder, cuz the breakdown is even more intense and um, and really that’s really, I think, um, like what your, that, the blessing for you has been is that, you know, while, while the, the, the fall down was there, you did get back up, you, you did move up, you did have somebody to support.

And I think, you know, if you were to say something to somebody who, who felt strong once, who didn’t, who doesn’t feel strong anymore, like who feel like they lost their strength, you know, where, where would you tell that person to, to look? And how would you tell that person to [00:52:00] find it?

Mujahid Hemani: I’d tell that person, gimme a call first.

I can have you number one. Hey. Yeah. Right. I hear that a lot. Yeah. Call me. Right. But for someone who’s, who’s going through, you know, job,

Muhammad Kermalli: sometimes it happens at a time of the night, you know, when you’re completely. And it happens when you’re at your lowest point. We’re at our lowest point. There is no access at that point in time.

No.

Mujahid Hemani: Who do you say that to that person? It’s well, that’s hard. It’s a hard question to answer. I’ll tell you that much because sometimes you wanna say like, it will get better when it doesn’t necessarily get better right away. Right. It’s always, do you want to hear time, time heals all. Do you want to hear, get back up and climb up that mountain again?

Right? Do you want to hear any inspirational code or anything? The motivational? No. Like you can say so many things, but what’s gonna relate to that person. So that, to that person I’ll tell them like, whatever makes you happy [00:53:00] build upon it. If building Lego makes you happy build upon it, if taking walks makes you happy, take more walks to build that, to build yourself back up.

If, if you have a passion for working out. If you have a passion for anything and you don’t like your job or whatever, focus on some of the passionate things that you like to get yourself to a happier place and to explore yourself more. That’s the best way I can describe it. Mm-hmm

Triena McGuirk: and I think the other piece too, is it’s okay to be uncomfortable.

Like I think that’s where we have the growth, right? Like when you circling back to like the part you were talking about when your wife was working and you were home by yourself, that was so uncomfortable for you. Yes. So uncomfortable. And rather than trying to get yourself out of the comfort, by, you know, getting yourself busy or going and socializing or helping someone, you know, you sat with it.

So when we have the [00:54:00] capacity to sit with the discomfort. Look at what it opens up to you, like you said, like time heals all, that’s where, you know, that’s where that comes from. That discomfort is no longer there for you. Time has healed that. Right? So yeah, these are, I think they’re all feeling all gone through.

Right.

Mujahid Hemani: And again, it, it, exactly people do go through these things. And like I said, like, you can pull out any inspirational thing, like, but what’s gonna stick. Right. That’s the thing, like, what’s gonna stick with a human, like with an individual, for me, it could be times you all Muhammad for you. It could be, get back up there, Trina for you.

It could be pursue, you know, like go forth and, and live prosperous. You know what I’m trying to say, like, everyone is different in that regard. And again, everyone has their own fall down moments, everything, everyone has their own journey, but everyone has something that makes them happy. Right. Mm-hmm so.

It, everyone has everyone should focus on whatever makes them happy at end the day. And everyone is

Triena McGuirk: a [00:55:00] person of value too. Right? Like you were your value, you, part of your journey, I think is rediscovering your value and really knowing your value.

Muhammad Kermalli: So let me ask you this then, um, you know, you said go back to find your passion or go back to, you know, you keep saying, go back to, so what I wonder is, you know, what got you away from it in the first place?

Why did you stop? Yeah. Like if you something’s working and you’re a kid, you’re happy, you know, your value you’re what, what got you away from it in your case?

Mujahid Hemani: I think being that yes, person really took away from a lot of things that I may have wanted to do or previous passions that I wanted to pursue. I just maybe lost myself in that place.

Right. Of being that yes, man. Leaving those certain things behind, not really people around me at that time. Necessarily interested in those type of things. So I left those interests behind, for example. And it’s so [00:56:00] funny because you know, you go through down again, you go through social media, you see people talk about things.

Now that really affected them back in the day. It’s, you know, back in high school, I never really talked about like power Rangers or comic books or anything like that too. And I found out like three people that I grew up with in high school, they were super into like geeky things like me. And it’s like, well, why didn’t we ever talk about this?

Right. Because it wasn’t cool or it wasn’t the thing to do, or it wasn’t the thing to say or whatever the case may be. Right. And maybe I put other people’s passions before mine, because I felt that if I was putting myself in their passions, then again, my value is up. My value is up for people that I can be that person.

And it didn’t matter. And again,

Muhammad Kermalli: do, do you now feel like after going through this, you now have even more to offer

Mujahid Hemani: oh, million percent in one [00:57:00] way, 1000000%. I, I feel like I can tell people don’t lose that passion yet. Your own passions don’t necessarily follow the pack all the time. Don’t be a yes, man, to everything that someone else is doing.

It’s it’s okay to say no. And it’s okay to say it’s okay to evaluate what’s important. Mm-hmm it’s okay. Yes. Of course. Say yes to opportunity say yes to new things that are scary in that sense. Right. It’s like, it’s like that classic movie, you know? Yes, man. With Jim Carey, right? Yeah. It’s you say yes to everything, but it’s understand that what the one you can say no is okay, because you’re, you’re uncomfortable with it.

Or you don’t wanna do it because it doesn’t, it is not gonna benefit you or value you in any way possible. It’s okay to say no. Right. That’s how I would tell people. It’s okay to say no. It’s okay to follow your own passions. It’s fine. It’s not, there’s nothing wrong with it at all. [00:58:00] If you like power Rangers at the age of 32, it’s fine.

It’s totally okay. There’s a lot of people out there that like, it

there’s more passed

Muhammad Kermalli: a long time ago, but, um, but you know, I like what you said about evaluating and not just saying yes. Yeah. I think that’s an important takeaway for a lot of, for a lot of us. Yeah. Um, because we, we found it, it, and it’s so like, it it’s like poetic. Because we find sometimes value in saying yes, but we get value in evaluating, not just saying yes, you know, that’s the point of evaluating, right.

To understand the value of the move. And, um, and it’s not to say that, you know, just do things out of, you know, only self-serving interests, you know, that’s not what you mean either. Like, you know, take care of people. Sure. Be a, be a [00:59:00] contributor, be generous. Right. Mm-hmm but evaluate like, you know, you have limited time in a day, you have limited energy, you gotta take care of yourself.

You gotta put value on that. And I always say like, I’m a package deal guys. Like, you know, like, uh, I gotta take care of me. And then once I’m done with that, I’m a better me to give to you too. Yeah. We all win for that. And the thing I’ve

Triena McGuirk: noticed too in working like just some projects with people. And so when you’re pulled into like an opportunity, you see this in business, I’m sure too, where.

um, I’m asked to do something and they have this vision of what my role is going to be. And, you know, I say, these are the things I’m saying yes to cuz this is what works for me. And this is what I know I can sign up for. But these are the reasons why I’m saying no to these things and why I feel they don’t work for me in this situation.

And what I have come to learn is when we’re able to, um, evaluate what to say yes to and [01:00:00] express that it opens up opportunities for creative creation that wasn’t there before. Cause I know when I’ve done this recently, they were like, oh my gosh, I didn’t see this. And then it just, and then it just made the project better because it was looking, I was looking at something that didn’t work in my hypothesized role, but it actually had, um, a bigger impact into the project itself.

So is you just, you never know what’s going to come out of these things, I guess is what I’m trying to say and what it invites in different ways.

Mujahid Hemani: but isn’t, isn’t that funny too? That like some, like you’re not the one who’s necessarily started the project you were brought onto the project. Right, right.

But you’re this new outside perspective saying that, Hey guys, this is what’s happening as what? That this is what could work, cannot work and anything too. And people value that. Right. So for me, I never looked at it in a sense where I had to listen to an outside perspective to really look inwards towards myself as a project as well.

Yeah. [01:01:00]

Muhammad Kermalli: Yeah. I get that. That’s cool. That’s cool. So, um, that, that’s amazing. Muja because I think that’s the stuff, you know, under the surface with you, that, that I think is very, very meaningful to people, uh, to hear that, you know, you can, you know, some people, they feel like they start at a low point and then they go like this, you know, in your case, you start at a high point, you went down and then, you know, you’re coming back and you’re coming back even.

Better than ever. Um, do you, do you ever feel though, even now that you are still at risk or vulnerable, in some ways, do you feel that like you talked about being indestructible, but you know, is there maybe there’s nothing, but do you feel that if you’re not careful or cognizant or mindful that you do, you know that you might be at risk, that you might be vulnerable?

If you’re not vigilant,

Mujahid Hemani: you’re not gonna please [01:02:00] everyone. I think that’s this thing I’m still not necess. You’re not, I’m still, maybe struggling with is the, is the people pleasing sometimes like the people who really do matter, right? Yeah. Whether it’s your family, whether it’s your coworkers, whether it’s your boss, right.

That sometimes it’s okay to not please everyone around you. Not everything is gonna fit perfectly in this puzzle. Right. It’s it’s not gonna happen. So, yeah, again, I’m human as well. I have emotions, right? So yeah, when I say I’m, I feel indestructible, I do feel indestructible in a sense where I know who I am as an individual to pursue forward, but if something hurts my feelings, am I gonna have a good cry out of it?

Yeah, I probably will. If something bothers me, am I gonna tell that person that this is really not working for me? I will. And it’s really of again, using my voice if people wanna listen, they’ll listen, because they’ll value me. Right. If people [01:03:00] don’t wanna listen, then maybe that’s not value to me as well to those type of relationships that I have.

Muhammad Kermalli: I love that Trina, a guy who, um, who has something to say found his voice

Triena McGuirk: yeah, for real.

Muhammad Kermalli: Yeah. Right? Like you that that’s, I think what, what I’m getting out of this really is that you, you know, once you find your voice, you’re able to also find your. And your voice is a reflection of yourself. You can, you know, there’s a lot to like there and, um, regardless of, you know, any other perception of value in terms of your usefulness, uh, to others, and then only after that point, can you really feel like you’re then able to contribute something and, and you do it on your terms?

I think that’s an amazing, that’s an amazing journey, man. I

Mujahid Hemani: appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Muhammad Kermalli: Definitely. It’s it’s uh, it’s great to have you come out here, uh, join us. Um, you know, like I said, [01:04:00] knowing you all these years, uh, nobody would’ve guessed that you’ve gone through this sort of thing. Um, and you know, like you said, maybe you’re just this, you’re this big strong looking Birdly looking guy that has no.

How does this guy have any feelings, you know? Um, but there you are. So it’s, it’s really something that I appreciated knowing more about you today, man. And, uh, I,

Mujahid Hemani: I appreciate you letting me, uh, come on here and, uh, share my story. You know, it’s funny. You see that it’s a perception, right? I’m the friendly giant people look at.

Muhammad Kermalli: Enjoy the conversation, man. Thank you so much for sharing that. I appreciate

Mujahid Hemani: it. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.