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Want More, Give More

with Muhammad Kermalli

In this episode of Breaking, our hosts Muhammad Kermalli and Triena McGuirk talk about:

👉 How he learned to recognize imbalances in his life and shifted his energy.

👉 Leaning on his strengths to do less to achieve more.

👉 Realigning his mission in life and reevaluating his integrity.

👉 How his wife and kids became his motivators to be and do better.

👉 Changing his perspective to see quality over quantity.

👉 And much more.



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Muhammad Kermalli –

Triena McGuirk –


Min Woo Park & Diana Hong @ 6 Story –

Episode Transcript

*This transcription was made for your convenience. Please excuse any mistakes the automated service made.

Want More, Give More with Muhammad Kermalli

Muhammad Kermalli: [00:00:00] One of the things I’ve, I’ve often heard, um, others talk about when they’ve referred to me, even, even Mike earlier on he’s like, yeah, you know, I always looked up to you this to you. You seem like you have it well put together and so on. And I’m thinking, and I’m just telling him as, as I’m, we’re walking out the door, I go, that was my lie.

Triena McGuirk: Yeah. It’s that was

Muhammad Kermalli: my illusion. When, um, when I was in high school, I don’t know if I mentioned this the last time. I, but when I was in high school, grade 11, uh, English, Ms. Dyson’s class, they were, they were, they did, they did a mock awards, you know, who’s most likely to be this who is gonna right. And so they had awards that they just did as a satire mm-hmm and they gave me.

The bullshit award. They said there is nobody who can bullshit their way through, through class the way you do, you have this snack. And I, I took that as a, uh, compliment. I was like, yeah, [00:01:00] I I’m pretty good at it. And over the years, you know, you lean on your strengths. Mm-hmm right. I’ll do mm-hmm so my strength for the longest time has been, I can bullshit with the best of them.

And there were always signs of the world telling you you’re full of it, but they would say it differently. Like you’re a real smooth talker. Yeah. And I used to be like of something. Yeah. I am smooth, but actually am I, for real? Yeah. And so, as I’m telling him this, I had to eventually say to myself that you’re lying.

I. It’s actually what you are. You have no integrity in, in anything that you do. And this all came out actually in a, in a self-reflection essay. I had to write oh, for TaeKwonDo, for TaeKwonDo. And, uh, and it, I remember writing about it because in TaeKwonDo they have these, what they call the principles of TaeKwonDo mm-hmm

Uh, and so there is, you know, there is this courtesy, there is, um, there’s [00:02:00] integrity. I think perseverance and integrity is one of them. And, um, when I was writing this essay, I looked at every single one of these tenants, they called the tenants of TaeKwonDo. And I felt like I could write about them, but when I got to integrity, I couldn’t write about it.

And for the first time I was like, I think I’m just gonna be honest about this, that. I didn’t have integrity and I’m gonna go work. I’m gonna go to work on my integrity. Uh, and then there were questions that I would ask myself, like, so why don’t you have integrity? Mm-hmm where did you pick that up from?

And I started going to going and I started looking for places where I could go. Hmm. See, I wasn’t taught integrity, but maybe I was rewarded for not acting with integrity. Right. And I started putting it out there as part of circumstance. I used to do this a lot, uh, where I’d be like, oh, I wasn’t taught, or I was rewarded to whatever, [00:03:00] but very, very quickly, like in, during the time I’m writing this essay, I was like, no, actually it was just its choice.

Mm-hmm you made a choice. MK. And you, you chose not to have integrity. And the, the worst part about it is you had everybody else believing. That you’re full of integrity. That you’re this honest person. Like I, even, when I look back in my past, I even went and decided to work for a bank because bank is, it’s all about trust and it’s all about, you know, um, people in bank they’re trustable people.

Um, and I have, you know, combinations to saves and vaults. So I am trustworthy. So I am a person of integrity. So I reinforced it on myself. It’s beautiful how the ego can like create all this. Um, and I have quite the ego. So I was like, wow, look at that. I designed all of this and I did all of this, no integrity.[00:04:00]

Um, and I realized that the lack of integrity, uh, that I had, and when I say lack of integrity, it’s like, I wouldn’t willfully go out and seek to cheat somebody mm-hmm . Um, but it was. But I knew that it was something for some reason that was always holding me back that ultimately when I would look not having integrity, not having enough, not having the level of integrity that I think that I came to realize a I’m capable of that.

I owe it to myself. Mm-hmm and others around me to have, and the cost of which to have that level of integrity and to maintain that level of integrity is now willing to pay. Cuz I think that’s the hard thing about balance and that’s the hard thing about having integrity is that you gotta give up something mm-hmm to keep it so somewhere along the lines.

Yeah. [00:05:00] There’s a cost to pay for everything. There’s a cost mm-hmm and the question becomes at what point in time is the cost higher on this side versus. On the other. Yeah. So I found that the cost of having integrity was high. I found that to, to, to compromise on integrity, got me somewhere quicker, faster.

So there was value mm-hmm and not having integrity, but then like so many, when you finally start looking at yourself and you’re like, you got this, but what are you really? Mm-hmm what is this all actually worth? What’s the cost, if you don’t have this, and then I’m like, oh yeah. So all those things that were worth it are no longer, they don’t have their worth, they don’t have their value.

And only this now had value. Like, and, and that became the mission. So to go get and go develop that integrity. Um, it became a thing from, from that point and from, uh, from an earlier, earlier stage. So if I, if I was looking all the way back, [00:06:00] um, You know, the, the first of it was when we, we immigrate, and this is a typical story we hear.

So we immigrate to the, to this country. And the first challenge I have with integrity is, so who are you? And who do you want to be? Because who you are is unknown. Mm-hmm is foreign, is not accepted. when we were younger and we lived in Saudi Arabia, We couldn’t, we couldn’t let people know who we were. So from a young age, mm-hmm, , uh, we you’re already used to masking.

We, we get used to masking and it becomes a, um, you gotta to survive. People can’t know who you are. Um, so that was okay from, from the get go. And so just, we transferred that yeah. Now to a place where, uh, no, everybody wants to know who you are, but actually not everybody wants to know who you are, so, uh, or can understand you.

So we just continue to give people what they, what works for them. Yeah. [00:07:00] And so I kept on, I kept on doing this. I kept on doing this and, and when I had, I had arrived here, I’m this, um, Scrawny kid who is, uh, one year ahead of his grade. Right. Mm-hmm , everybody’s bigger. So there’s the idea of, well, you better put up, like, you gotta be bigger, go out there.

Yeah. You gotta be bigger. And so there’s a lot of that. Um, and it’s like, yeah. So, okay. So size matters. So we gotta be bigger. We gotta be, and you’re not bigger. So you gotta find a way to show your, your, your bigness. And so find somebody else to push around and you know, that sort of thing. So those are the thoughts that I’m learning, but I got tired of it because I couldn’t be the bigger person mm-hmm I wasn’t strong enough.

I wasn’t fast enough. I wasn’t anything enough. Um, I couldn’t even pretend to be. And then I, I met with, uh, with martial arts and that was the beginnings of like, when I was training, I was like 13 years old. And in a short amount [00:08:00] of time from time, I was 13, 16, maybe 18. By the time I’m 18, um, enough training.

Mm-hmm , you know, you put in the time mm-hmm um, all of a sudden I’m starting, uh, I’m developing like, um, you know, I can, I can see like muscle definition and I can move now, like a certain way. I’m running faster, I’m passing people, um, and the strength starts developing, but it’s a, it’s a, it’s an outer level strength.

Mm-hmm the inner self is still what it is. Um, and I write about this in one of my essays. Like I am starting to really like crush it physically, and I feel like on unstoppable and it’s like, uh, it starts getting to me. Like now I’m thinking I can take anything now. Nothing can stop me. And I am indestructible and I go very, very quickly.

Like I enter a tournament and I win a tournament. I go here and I’m. So I [00:09:00] go from losing a lot to winning a lot. There was no, there was a very short transition in between mm-hmm and as I’m winning in, as I’m winning, as I’m winning like this, like, uh, you know, like, have you ever been really thirsty? Mm-hmm and then you see water and you’re like jug jug, it jug it like you overdo it.

Mm-hmm okay. So that’s what I did. I just started overdoing it and, um, like starting to be the bully, starting to push people around. Um, I’m playing soccer, uh, and I’m feeling, oh, I can actually now. Hit a person knock a person down and they can’t do anything about it anymore. Right. Um, and I was like, yeah, I think it’s your turn world to, to feel this.

And so like this oppressive tyrannical state starts taking over, um, and I could have whatever I want with whoever I want. It was so, um, yeah, it was [00:10:00] intoxicating. So, but what’s amazing about it is. So now I’m falling outta balance right. In, in, in doing this. But I don’t realize it because it’s such a thrill.

It’s such a high, uh, and that’s, I think one of the things that happens to a lot of, a lot of people that I’ve noticed a as well as for myself, is that when we are on our way to falling outta balance, it’s not that anyone ever wakes up and says, I want to be outta balance. It’s a pursuit for something.

Whatever it might be. Um, I wanna, I wanna be stronger, so I’m gonna work out, work, work out, but, and then I lose, you know, I’m laser focused, you know, when they say laser focused, uh, singular minded, whatever the, these terminologies that come up about having this level of concentration. Is that a bad thing?

No, it’s not seen as a thing. That’s that’s not good for you, but we can fall so deep into that one area. Mm-hmm that we forget the rest mm-hmm and I’ve done it. So [00:11:00] that’s what I started noticing that I did this, but it was, it was for a good pursuit. Mm-hmm right. It usually is right. yeah. And so that’s one of the first line sense when I look back about balance mm-hmm is that, is that, um, it’s not something that we go out there to seek.

It’s something that we, we find ourselves in and. I also,

Triena McGuirk: or strive to protect really,

Muhammad Kermalli: right. So I’m, I’m moving forward in this direction and I’m like, this is great. I deserve this. I want more of this now. And it’s not until the universe starts saying like census messages that, look, this is not, this is not a just state.

This is not good for you or others around you. And at first it kind of whispers it to us, but then it, you know, and there are signs. Sometimes it’s a person who, uh, we, we step on to get somewhere and they give us this, look that you’re stepping on me. [00:12:00] And we look at that person and go, yep, I know I stepped on you, but you’re insignificant.

So I’ll keep going, cuz I can get away with it. And then we’ll step on somebody else and somebody else and they keep looking at us and they send us these messages. So that’s just an example. Um, and they’re like, Hey, that wasn’t right. And be like, yeah. And what are you gonna do about it? And we keep going or we justify it, like, listen, I gotta do this.

Mm-hmm sorry, but I gotta do this. And then we keep going. So, um, so I noticed that happening and, um, what brought balance back to me, I got married, uh, and my wife is probably the, uh, not probably she is the, the, the balancing factor in my life. So, uh, like for so many, you’ll hear the story, right? Mm-hmm , it’s like, it’s the significant others.

So my wife, um, if people meet us, they’ll think the, it, like, we’re like pole [00:13:00] opposites from each other. She is super, um, low resting level, calm almost to the point where somebody would say disinterested do you know what I mean? Like, so just content calm. Complete, um, deeply confident, whereas I’m the, you know, let’s talk to everybody and that sort of thing.

So, so it was also interesting at first, um, cuz I’d be like, I would see her as somebody who I would wanna then change to be more like this way. right. And I was thinking, well, well, why not? And only later did I come to appreciate that? I was like, wow, there’s a whole other world. And it’s actually pretty good.

Mm-hmm uh, now how do you find the balance between the two? So, uh, so it’s the wife who kind of got me grounded right back because now just about me and if I’m a, if I’m a TYT, I’d be a tyrant with her [00:14:00] mm-hmm and you know, you can be a Tyran with somebody in passing. They’re gone, but now this, this is a partner, a life partner who’s present constantly.

And, um, can’t step on them the

Triena McGuirk: same way,

Muhammad Kermalli: uh, for step on, you know, what’s amazing about her is that she would let me do it. Mm-hmm , that’s, what’s amazing about her is that she, she would be like, okay, Hey, take your turn, do your thing. And it’s not until long time later that I realized I’m not being, I’m not being fair.

Right. Um, and so she would set the example for me, but she wouldn’t tell me she would just set the example. It’s like the greatest way to teach person, you know, without telling them mm-hmm . But it, you gotta also be talking to somebody who’s mindful and paying attention and I wasn’t even paying attention.

So that brings the balance back. And, um, and I go into, uh, and now we’re [00:15:00] into the twenties. I’m fast tracking, but I go into my twenties where I start my first businesses. And, um, I had learned about an area of industry that I never knew existed. Um, it was, it was being able to play at a level of industry where the.

You’re so much you’re so far past like retail or what consumers see mm-hmm that you’re like, whoa, I didn’t even know this realm even existed and who the players were, who play at that level. And I got to see that and they got to participate in it and it is, um, it was bigger than anything I’d ever done.

And so again, there was like this pursuit for more now money and it’s just growing and it’s fast. And all of a sudden you go from being, you know, others have talked about it. And I felt like this person who is working on an hourly rate mm-hmm to, there’s no limit on what you can making a day. [00:16:00] Wow. You know, and then I start pursuing that really hard.

And so all hours of the day and night working with overseas, just trade business. Around the clock. And the, the thing about money is in business. Is it never sleeps? No. Like there’s always somewhere there’s commerce going on. And I was, I was looking to just spend the whole day doing it. Um, I don’t realize I’m losing balance all this time again.

Uh, I didn’t get to a down point. You know how you people talk about there being a fall down point mm-hmm I never got to the fall down point with, with that. I got warnings. So what did your warnings look like then? so the one warning I will never forget was it was my father-in-law God rest the soul. Uh, he’d come to town and we were going for walks at night.

So we’re going for a walk and I’m on the phone. Mm it’s morning, somewhere else. It’s night where we are and I’m [00:17:00] going for walk. And I’m yapping on the phone while I’m talking. This is like 99 year, 2000, like, um, talking, talking, talking on the phone from one call to the next, while we’re walking and he stopped in the middle of it.

I’m just talking with him. You’re present for anyone. Yeah. I’m not present for any of this and I’m walking and he stops and we all stop. I stop, but I’m still talking and he just waits and I finish the call and he goes, can I see your phone? And he takes my phone and we had the flip phones back then. Yeah.

And he flipped it and he put it in his pocket and I was like, I gotta make a call. Are you kidding me? And then he just kept walking. And I didn’t recognize it even then mm-hmm at first I was like, look what he was saying to you. I go, look, I gotta pay for all this. And this is how I pay for this. Look at all that we have, this is how I do it. Um, don’t tell me how I’m gonna run my business.

You know, like yeah. The ego son law father-in-law thing, like, you [00:18:00] know, don’t tell them how, you know, don’t let them tell you how it’s gonna be. But that was my first reaction if I’m being honest, but, uh, you know, I just carried on. Okay. All right, let’s go. It’s fine. Short visit. He doesn’t live there. Let’s just move on.

Yeah. Uh, So I realized from an early stage that I, I should have checks and balances built around me. I knew that much, but the problem is when we put the checks and balances in place, we will also fight them.

Mm-hmm so, you know, but I put the kind of checks and balances in place. Uh, I would say I did it necessarily just by design, but like getting married at a young age for me was, um, such an intentional thing that some of my friends were like, what are you doing? Getting married this age. We are not ready for this.

You haven’t lived, you’re gonna regret this. Mm-hmm , you’re gonna wish you had done some things when you’re 30, you’re gonna wish that you had done these things. Trust me from now, my friends were telling me mm-hmm I remember this so clearly, because they were like, [00:19:00] you know, you’re doing it too soon. Um, and I was like, no, I think how old were you?

I was 21, 21, 22. Yeah. It’s considered relatively young. I was 23. She wasn’t 20 yet. Yeah, it is. It is young. I guess it’s considered young by some people cuz we haven’t matured yet. We weren’t on our, we weren’t on our feet yet in, in sort set. Had I not gotten married when I’d gotten married? The way that I was, Ugh, the kind of trouble that I would’ve gotten myself into or where I would’ve ended up with this ego of mine, would’ve been such a state perhaps of imbalance that coming back from that would’ve been that much more difficult. Mm-hmm so, um, so you, yeah, it was a life move and having, you know, our first, so, so having our first son, where was about like now mid twenties, late twenties.

Right. Um, and looking at this, this other now, like. Person who’s in our life. Who’s got more, a different kind of meaning than any other person can ever have. [00:20:00] Mm-hmm a child, right. Uh, looking at this child and saying, okay, we, we want to give them the, the best possible options, the best possible life. Um, and I learned a lesson from somebody.

I remember who had, I looked at him and I looked at his kids and I was like, I really like the way your kids are. Can you give me some advice? And I just go right up to people and I just ask him point blank. And he said the most profound thing to me, I carried with me till today. And he said, you know, we talk about integrity.

Mm-hmm so this to play later, but he says, you want good kids? And I was like, yeah, he’s like a good person. You’d be good. Say how simple that is. Yeah. It’s like, just you’d be good. Uh, and your kids would be good. I go, okay. So to get my kid to what I wanted him to be and to what I wanted him to have, I couldn’t just go buy it.

No, well done as well. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So that was [00:21:00] the next thing that, that kind of brought the balance around. Um, but even in trying to raise our first one, so what does

Triena McGuirk: that mean though? Like when you’re trying to bring the balance. Okay.

Muhammad Kermalli: Like what is, yeah. So all the things that I would ever want him to have to be mm-hmm, , I’d have to be first mm-hmm

so you know how the hold, you know, the do, as I say, not as I do that had to go and I’d already, I’d already seen that, you know, that way of doing things where, uh, where it’s like do, as I say, and then I’m like, but you don’t do it. And, you know, we’ve seen it so many times mm-hmm but I was like, I will not do that.

Right. I will not get caught in that. I got caught in that at some point. Cause every kid integrity stuff came

Triena McGuirk: for you later.

Muhammad Kermalli: Right. That

Triena McGuirk: you’re dad, when you’re acting in a, non-ag like for your own account.

Muhammad Kermalli: [00:22:00] Right. So now I’m still doing it, but now I gotta do a better job of hiding it.

Triena McGuirk: Ah, okay. Right. So it just makes you really busy and fragmented.

Muhammad Kermalli: So all the, meanwhile there’s this image, that’s just, you, I’m gonna be this to my son. And I’m like this dad, whatever, whatever. Yeah. Good. Trying to be a good dad and all these other, the things. Uh, but on the inside, there’s nothing. And it’s funny, like, I’ll have a bunch of people now come up to me after this probably going after they see this going no way.

That was, there’s no way you could tell us that was not real. I’m like, yeah, that was not real. Right. And, and some of them will say I knew it, or that’s really dis mm-hmm and that’s the fear is that, you know what, man, I was just as afraid. I was just as confused. I didn’t know the answers. Mm-hmm I was making it all up.

Yeah. Um, you know, and we’re encouraged by the way, [00:23:00] in some ways, because it’s like, you know, the whole fake until you make it mm-hmm but we can Def I started use using that as my like, motto. Like I’m just I’ll make it. I just gotta get through this point. Yeah. But the world wasn’t respond slipper, pretty slope though,

Triena McGuirk: cuz it serves a purpose and there is a whole school of psychology, but why that helps us and move forward.

But that becomes a pathology of some sort. That’s not

Muhammad Kermalli: really helpful. Well to everything that, that comes a point of being excessive. Yeah. And, and that’s where we get loss. So it’s we find that faking it till we make it works, but then we just push, but then you’re just in the fake, right? Yeah. So in anything that I found that I could do that I would do, I would keep pushing, I would keep pushing and the pursuit of more of something is what has always gotten me off my balance.

So, uh, so for example, uh, it would be make more money, work, harder, work more hours, but then we lose the time with the family. Mm-hmm [00:24:00] so, um, same with, uh, so as I’m going through this, um, all of the stuff that we’re, we’re, we’re doing, um, we’re finding success of different sorts, but ultimately when it came down to it, uh, it was, it was, uh, it was always the older one.

I always say the older one talked to me how to live. The younger one taught me how to love. So there were two things that I was not being true about. And it was my two sons that I credit for, like, um, reflecting that back to me. Mm-hmm cause I found that if I didn’t, that’s where I would learn the lesson.

And um, and, and with the, the younger one, I’m sorry, the older one, it was about, Hey, listen, be a person of a integrity. Okay. So by getting him to do it, then you’ve absolved

Triena McGuirk: yourself of needing to

Muhammad Kermalli: do it yourself. Yeah. Let a lot of parents do it. That’s like, Hey, you’re better than me right now. I can tell you that mm-hmm but I’ve taken care of you.

So I’m good now, but I wasn’t good. [00:25:00] Mm-hmm actually I wasn’t. So, um, So doing, uh, so doing that, you know, he starts down this path of he’s an honest kid, um, says, please, this the whole thing. And I’m looking at him going, and he doesn’t even know who I am. Right. And I’ve got this thought in my head the whole time.

Um, one of the thing that I found that was that I was not true about, um, was when it came down to, to business, cuz I’ve always been around business and it was it when I finally got over this hump, it changed everything. And it was that when I was taking care after the client, it wasn’t that I was taking care of the client.

It’s that it’s just, I wanted to sell something mm-hmm and I’d been told before, you’re a great sales guy, you know? And I was like, yeah, I’m pretty good. But then I didn’t realize that that was also another way of saying to me that. You’re not really [00:26:00] watching what the other person needs or wants. You’re just looking to close and get onto the next close.

And there’s no question about whether this is good for them or not. Mm-hmm um, and I found that when I’d get to certain levels, when I’d be in front of certain opportunities, I would, there would be this moment of doubt in myself. Could I go ahead? Could I close this? Could I do this? Am I worthy of having this kind of client?

And the funny thing is, is as I’m sitting in front of them, I could sense it, that they’re looking at me going, you’re not worthy of having our business. And I would see it. And I would actually be like, you’re right. I’m not worthy of having this business. And the deal would fall apart, but we wouldn’t have actually, we would have that conversation on verbal and I’d be wondering, why are these transactions not closing?

Why am I hitting this point and not getting further?

and so [00:27:00] that’s when I realized, okay, so that’s what I gotta correct. And, um, and the price for that would mean that sometimes I’d have to give up, like somebody would actually walk in and I’d say, yeah, I can’t help you. Mm-hmm . And I was like, okay, this is not gonna, this is gonna, this is, this is uncomfortable.

This is like another, how did

Triena McGuirk: it change in your practice then? Like, if you’re always trying to sell someone something, how did that look differently than them purchasing what aligned with their needs rather than what you wanted to sell?

Muhammad Kermalli: So the crazy thing about that is. It’s gonna sound like the perfect sales pitch.

yeah. That’s what I’ve been told. It’s the perfect sales pitch. It’s actually, they would come in and I’d be like, so what do you want? Yeah. Not what do I have? It’s what do you want? Yeah. What do you need? Okay. That’s it. That’s all you need. What about like, what are your, have you thought about this? Have you thought it wasn’t about, and services is about what’s your direction?

Where are you coming from? Where are you? It was about them. [00:28:00] Okay. It went from being about what I’m getting about from this mm-hmm to what are they getting, but did you get more successful after you? The crazy thing is yes, of course you, it was, it’s like unreal. The amount of success. Yeah. But for somebody who is lacking in their own confidence or lacking in their own abundance, we don’t see that.

Mm-hmm we see, because we’re so yeah, if I don’t get this, like it’s we see in that transaction, we see what we’re getting. Mm-hmm . um, that’s why sometimes, like, I would look at a deal like even until today. So for example, there’d be a transaction where I’d be looking at it. I’ve given everybody, I’ve given the person everything that they need more than they need.

And then I watch back and they’d be like, now I want a little more mm-hmm and then I would step back. I’ve be like, whoa, wait a second. You got everything you need. Now, this is just a matter of more for you. [00:29:00] No but then I was thinking, I used to do that. I’d be trying to get as much mm-hmm as I could out of it.

Not thinking about whether they’re losing or gaining or what, with the balance, there was no consideration. Yeah, none whatsoever. It was, you know, there’s a concept in pricing. They call it whatever they, they say what the market can bear mm-hmm I hate that concept. Like I actually, today I advocate against it.

If I were to teach in, you know, business school or whatever, I’d be like, throw that idea out the window. It’s not what the market can bear. It’s what’s the value of this. Yeah. Stop. Don’t try to make as much as you possibly can. Think about how everybody wins. Take a holistic approach, take a sustainable approach.

Now, now they’re talking about those concepts now mm-hmm, slowly sustainability’s coming into play, but before it was profit, as much as you possibly can. Yeah. And I bought in, I drank the Kool-Aid on it. Mm-hmm until such time, I was like, it’s eating at me, like eating at [00:30:00] my consciousness, killing me. And I’m done being two different people.

Mm-hmm that was killing me too. So I was like, I’m tired of being two different people. I just wanna be one person and I had to first be okay. With that one person. Yeah.

Triena McGuirk: Well, because now your insecurities are now in the forefront, right? They’re they’re not hidden behind this

Muhammad Kermalli: mask you have going on. And I credit again.

Um, If I’m gonna tell the story. I created martial arts again, because when I first got that, uh, for me, everything was in that black belt when I first got, because you stopped doing

Triena McGuirk: martial arts, I think the same time you

Muhammad Kermalli: stopped for 21 years, that’s it. So for, for, so, so I get that first black belt and I have the black belt.

Mm-hmm I, I am, I’m not being black belt. I’m just having it. You know, there’s a difference between having, so the status of the black belt got the status, then you stopped it. Yeah. And then, but the black belt is not just having the belt. It’s a way of, it’s a way of being, and I [00:31:00] wasn’t embodying all of these tenants.

Yeah. But I passed a test. Right. The physical test. And so, uh, so you’re us go by and I started training again, and it’s when I started training a second time that I couldn’t hide. You couldn’t hide for yourself. I couldn’t hide my fault anymore. I’m older. Uh, I move slower and I had to start all over again.

But now I’m like, um, but the, I would even

Triena McGuirk: more outside of the physical stuff. It’s the. the character stuff that it makes you look at, I would feel is where the heaviest lifting

Muhammad Kermalli: is. So that’s why part of journey, I think, um, master fraud, cuz the guy is for real. Um, and I hadn’t had a relationship like with a person who is of the caliber that he is.

I hadn’t had that ever. Mm-hmm I’ve had some great people around me, my whole life, starting with my parents and my teachers, my uncles, my family, all of them. Great, great people. Great. My sisters, my [00:32:00] siblings. Great. My wife, great master for a, is a different kind of great too. Mm-hmm and I hadn’t had that from the at point of view.

Everybody else was very personally personally collected to me. Yeah. I had never seen a person like that around me who was not my family mm-hmm and um, And the way in, in which he operates and the way in which he does things. And I, I, at sometimes I would see how he would leave it, leave, leave it on the table to be taken mm-hmm

And I was like, how, how, how could you do that? And how that’s okay. And you did, and it, it brought out another side to me. I was like, whoa. So I started coming across the idea of just, just putting everything out, everything you have give it mm-hmm like put it all out and you’ll be fine. Whereas [00:33:00] when we have no integrity, there’s nothing to put out.

There’s nothing without never thought of it that way. When there’s no integrity, there’s nothing to put out. Mm-hmm so what are we doing? We’re constantly trying to hoard and gather. We’re trying to gather. Yeah. So the test of my own integrity became mm-hmm . How much can I give, how much can I put out? How much can I let go?

And I found myself not willing to let go of many things. And I was like, huh. So that’s gonna be your challenge. And that is

Triena McGuirk: a huge one, cuz we place so much value on that. Yeah. Right. There’s a lot of, yeah. I was talking to my mom recently and she was saying, she’s like, your dad really doesn’t need anything.

I’m like, no, like he actually does not want for anything at all. Yeah. It doesn’t even doesn’t even occur to him to go buy himself a new shirt. He’ll just be like, oh it has a hole in it. Yeah. It’s still good. The rest of the shirt’s still good. Yeah. And you’ll just keep wearing the shirt. [00:34:00] Yeah. And so it just, it’s so liberating when you don’t have that kind of,

Muhammad Kermalli: you know, we live in a, on you.

Yeah. Have you heard people say like, and we write it on our resumes. I’m results-oriented mm-hmm you heard that results-oriented thing. I’ve been very results oriented, close the sale, be number one, win. Uh, but how do you get those results? Yeah, but it didn’t, it didn’t matter because I’m results oriented.

I’m focused. I get it done. I deliver. And I deliver like on the top, I’m the best. Um, but it’s all that I was compromising on. Mm-hmm and the one thing, and it kept coming back to that one thing and I couldn’t stand it anymore. So then I was like, forget about the result. All you need to know is that you put everything you got in you out there.

And I came to realize I didn’t have much, I hadn’t worked on anything. But then I was like, whatever I have is what I’m gonna put out. So what’d you put out, [00:35:00] uh, like it was everything that I got. So if somebody came in, I had to know for myself, like we’re talking about business or in anything. I was like, I have to know that I did everything that I could possibly do.

And, you know, when you see somebody exert themselves to the group Raiders degree, that they can mm-hmm, , you know, that they’re giving you everything. Would

Triena McGuirk: you feel like the level of conscientiousness came in that you wouldn’t have had before? Absolutely. Cause you’re always then thinking about what other people need when you’re practicing conscientiousness.

Absolutely. There’s like a huge logistics attached to it.

Muhammad Kermalli: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I’m, and then I’m also thinking about what, what am I giving, what really am I offering anybody? Um, where am I taking them? And so my result was really their result instead of becoming their result and I was enjoying it and I was like, yeah.

Triena McGuirk: And did you did the returns from people change or people’s feedback?

Muhammad Kermalli: I’ll tell you in 2018. Um, I remember there was, um, [00:36:00] I dunno if I can even talk about this has enough time passed two years, right? Okay. so, so there was this, uh, there was this effort that, um, a group had approached us to take us public and it was about, you know, Hey, you’re doing something really special here.

You know, you can take this and blah, blah, blah. And it’s this much multiple, and you walk away with this many zeros. Yeah. And I was like, wow, this sounds really, really interesting. Uh, okay, let’s start on the process. And I had to start giving them my goals. Mm-hmm and showing them like, check under the hood, you know, check the financials and it’s all there.

It’s all looking really good. And these are my goals. Um, somewhere along the line, though, uh, as we’re going through that, uh, There’s this taste. I was like, ah, this sounds like it’s about the money again. Yeah. And I was like, I have to resist this. I gotta say no in like, this is gonna make me a ton of money, but it just [00:37:00] something about it feels like it’s about the quantity of things, not the quality of things, the quality of, and so I started saying to myself, if I feel like it’s about the quantity of things, that’s my marker.

That if I was to say is, what is it? It’s it’s that right there. When I hit that fork. Mm-hmm is this about quantity? And that’s, if I can answer that, it’s such an easy yes or no question. Mm-hmm is this about quantity? Yes. What’s more motivating you right now. Yeah. Is this about quantity? Yes. Then don’t go that way.

Yeah. That’s it. Is this about the quality of something? Yes. Then go that way. Yeah. Or

Triena McGuirk: if it is about the quality or the quantity, whichever we need to go, sometimes we have to make a balance decision in one way. So,

Muhammad Kermalli: you know, um, I gotta say there’s no such thing as an imbalance. When it comes to quality, you can always increase.

You can’t lose your balance. I find mm-hmm I can’t lose balance increasing quality. [00:38:00] No, but I can lose balance, but you’ll

Triena McGuirk: lose. If you’re increasing quality, sometimes your cost will go up. Or the time goes up, but so interestingly, but that eventually

Muhammad Kermalli: comes back, pays you back many. Exactly. But you have to

Triena McGuirk: go into it without awareness that, okay, I’m gonna be, you know, a little bit of an uphill learning curve here, whatever it is, but it’s gonna come back.

Muhammad Kermalli: Uh, I was focusing so much on our sales and the numbers. Mm-hmm that I was, and, and that’s why coming back to of this group when I didn’t feel it. I, I, I cut the deal. I was like, you know what, thank you. But no, thank you. We are moving on.

Triena McGuirk: But then there’s, there’s always, I don’t know what the, the dynamic, the dynamic of the deal was, but I know from other conversations I have with people in similar situations, um, They didn’t like what was gonna be done with the company that they were selling or the, or the intellectual property, how that they were selling, how it was going to be, um, utilized or sometimes I’ve heard the word, like manipulated or, um, misuse on people’s, [00:39:00] um, like heartstrings kind of thing.

Like they’re just that’s

Muhammad Kermalli: you heard that from people. Yeah. Those that’s gotta be what I call the old school. Yeah. Because new school is the way we’re taught and it’s taught start something. Don’t get emotional, get ton of money. Get as this many users, get it to this multiple and then get out. Yeah. There is.

There’s no more question of, well, what’s the value you that you’re giving people? What are your relationships? Yeah, it’s got nothing to do with that anymore. Right. Although. These, these are actually young

Triena McGuirk: and old people, but yeah,

Muhammad Kermalli: well, I’m not saying young and old, I’m saying new and old, new and

Triena McGuirk: old, but yeah.

But I see, I see where they got their thoughts. Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent from,

Muhammad Kermalli: yeah. Um, and then you see what’s going on, but that’s a whole other conversation of, of, of how business works and, and, and what’s now happening in places like Silicon valley and all the things that have happened on wall street that, that, that, um, that point to like the problem with thinking this way and, and working this way and how [00:40:00] sustainable is it and how really good is it for the consumer and how is it good for even the people that are involved for anyone, right.

Yeah. And the, the cost of the consciousness, the cost of people’s health, the cost of people’s everything. It just, in fact, they’re

Triena McGuirk: interconnected and we’re like making decisions literally that disenfranchise other people.

Muhammad Kermalli: But to our scenario, why I brought it up was because. there was a pause. And after a few months they came back to me again.

Mm. And they came back to me just because we intersected on another, um, on another opportunity. And the same guys asked me, they said, so just outta curiosity, did you meet your targets that you were setting out for? And I said to them, I remember these words, they just came right outta my mouth. I was like, you interesting is I stopped looking at the targets and they’re like, really?

And I said, yeah. And then I crushed them. Mm-hmm . And so that was another thing about balance is that, uh, if there’s one thing that I would say about it, it’s that every [00:41:00] time I have fallen outta balance, every time it has been in the pursuit of more, more something, I wanna have more likes. I wanna have more friends.

I want to have more money. I wanna have more property. I want to have more and more and more something. It’s the quantity of things. that is the only place I ever lose balance. If I ever say, uh, I wanna learn how to channel my energy better. If I wanna say, I want to cha I want to focus on how I can think better, but that’s, these are qualitative things, but you have to create time for that though, but carve out time, carve out time.

Sure. But whatever I give up to, to focus on these things, that the quantity of all of a sudden, now I have more time. Mm-hmm it seems when I talk to the people who I talk to, everybody seems busy, whereas I don’t feel [00:42:00] overwhelmed. Mm-hmm and the, and my, my son, and some people ask me go, how do you do all of these things that you’re doing now?

And I go. Yeah, it’s because I don’t feel overwhelmed about any of it. I’m true to what I can do. And it it’s funny how they all like sync up together. Mm-hmm , that’s it. So I find that even when I do focus on the quality of who I am, and I work on that, the quantities that are related to me, it’s almost like this.

It’s kind of like, um,

If we are like the center of something, right, mm-hmm, our universe, mm-hmm right. Our core. Right. Quite often, what I think happens with me happened with me was that I was trying to build the crusts, the crust layer, the outer layers. I’m trying to add more crust.

Right. And instead, now what I would do is I focus only on the core and as the core becomes. Stronger mm-hmm gravity takes over [00:43:00] and the rest of it just attracts without the effort of having to go and chase it. Yeah.

Triena McGuirk: That’s the law of attraction, the power of manifestation that’s balance, creating your own world.

Yeah. Inviting what aligns

Muhammad Kermalli: in a nutshell. Mm-hmm that’s it? Um, yeah. And the

Triena McGuirk: work life balance, like from the visual on your computer, like I, to your point, I don’t know if it was on the cameras were on or not yet, but I can’t stand those visuals that drive me crazy. Cuz I too have the same concept of that, of like, there’s just life there’s no work.

Life work is part of life. Whether it’s housework or homework or work, work, like it’s, everything is, is just life and how to keep your life I balanced and the ebbs and flows in that. And I think that’s the tricky

Muhammad Kermalli: part. Um, I constantly find, and I don’t know, maybe I’ll just find the same thing that there’s always a call.

There’s always an invitation, um, [00:44:00] to offer me more of something. Yeah. Or to distract you. well, that’s it. So, so the hard part about keeping that balance is say no to it and, um, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing how much more I have have, or I feel I have by saying no more mm-hmm not, yes. More. Mm-hmm it’s really interesting.

I talk about this book all the time. You know, the, the, the, the discipline pursuit for less. And I, I said to myself, I said, I wonder how great it will feel the day that I can completely empty myself the day I can completely have nothing left inside of myself. And I was recently speaking to a really good friend of mine on this topic.

And I said, you know, um, usually we are soon by bringing more into ourselves. Whereas if I start thinking about putting more of myself out and just emptying and just giving more and more, I said the most amazing thing, I’ve discovered the most amazing [00:45:00] thing. And he says, let me guess I said, yeah, go ahead.

He goes, you discover you actually have more. I go, yes, go. The crazy thing that happens is that we are so rich. Mm-hmm, just in terms of who we are and what we have to offer. Mm-hmm that the more we empty, the more we discover is there. And then we empty that. And then we empty that that is actual growth, not collecting something, but.

Emptying that out from ourselves. I don’t know how I’m safe. I’m saying it right?

Triena McGuirk: No, it’s like it’s redistribution or planting seeds. And,

Muhammad Kermalli: but as we put that out, it comes out the rest of it just starts growing along with it. Yeah. But

Triena McGuirk: that’s the ripple effect, right? Like is like you were saying, you were talking about going to a quantum level.

That’s what quantum thinking is. Quantum thinking is, is planting an intent and letting the ripple take effect? Yeah. I always, I always say like attachment to outcome, right?

Muhammad Kermalli: When people are ever, ever have a question to ask themselves, the question is not, what more can I get? Mm-hmm

Triena McGuirk: it’s

Muhammad Kermalli: more, what can I do simply?

Yeah. What more can I give? Yeah. Mm-hmm and if they [00:46:00] actually want more it’s it’s almost like, like now I have this attitude to someone who comes in and says, Hey, I want this. I go stop. Mm-hmm why would you come to me? with what you want. Mm-hmm why don’t you come to me with an offer? Do you think I’ll be more responsive when you come with an offer or do you think, uh, you’ll, I’ll be more responsive when you come with a, with an ask mm-hmm and what we’re taught to do I find sometimes, or we’re wherever we might learn it is that to, to have more, we have to ask for more.

We have to go get more. We have to go take more. Yeah. Growing, because I think the lesson that I learned out of all of this is I want more give more that’s it? It’s that simple. Mm-hmm uh, so, uh, and, and then, and lastly, sometimes less is more, well, that’s what I’m saying as we give, we have less, right? Yeah.

So that’s the whole counter in terms of

Triena McGuirk: even like physical things is more. Yeah. Cause I think what you talking with Mike you’re like the things that we own own us kinda thing, right? That’s that’s. That’s that’s the toxic dream. We’re all fed, right. Is [00:47:00] this consumption mentality of needing more and achieving to get more?

And it’s, it’s just this vicious cycle of consumerism and materialism that I feel like,

Muhammad Kermalli: I don’t know. I broke the heart of a couple of wealth advisors as well. Who are, who Kim come talk to me saying, Hey, you know, if you give us money and we, we, we’re here to talk to you about this. And I was like, what are you here to talk to me about how we can make you.

richer. Yeah. And I was like, I’m not your client. Yeah. I’m not interested in any of that. And then somebody said to me goes Mohamed, you can only say that because you probably have enough. And I’m like, you would be surprised mm-hmm how little you have to have. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking on that level before you start realizing that’s really

Triena McGuirk: not.

And that’s the thing, like I seen it happen and like, cause I’ve worked, I’ve had the privilege of working with a lot of families who, um, you know, they have, let me know what their financial struggle is and, and just how real the day to day is for them, which is terrifying. And, you know, um, we do live [00:48:00] and speaking from a GTA perspective, it’s insanely expensive to live here.

And so just that onto itself is an issue. So you have, I see people who are. in, in families I work with or even family, my family itself. Cause there’s a spectrum of, um, of, uh, financial kind of, uh, prosperity in my family from the haves and haves nots, if you will, from a financial perspective. And so what I’ve noticed is it’s always where you make it.

It’s always where you make it. I have sat down with families or I’ll sit down with my dad who will like. He doesn’t, he won’t have anything sometimes. And, or he’ll be like, he’ll destroy his house to renovate it. It’s it’s better now, but he’ll destroy it. And he’ll be literally living in a construction zone.

Yeah. And be so content mm-hmm because it’s his construction zone. Yeah. And, and other people would be like horrified from it or going into someone’s house. And they have absolutely nothing. They don’t even have furniture in their homes, but they’re the most content happy [00:49:00] people you’ve ever met. Cuz they’re so . Grateful for what they do have.

And then other people, um, that might be on the same spectrum or have such an abundance of wealth and resources. Um, some of the happiest people I’ve ever met and they’re caught in this circle of like how to keep it and how to sustain it and how to sustain a toxic dynamic in their business relationship.

Just because they gotta keep up with everything that they’ve built. Under this, yeah, this illusion. So it’s such a, it’s such an interesting thing when people can separate their value and their worth from the material stuff,

Muhammad Kermalli: a a a hundred percent write so much more. One of, one of the questions that, um, that has cropped up is like, you know, as we’re falling off of that balance point, you know, you use the word now instead of balance, what do you say?

Flow and friction and flow friction and [00:50:00] flow. Yeah, because we were just talking about this earlier that, you know, are we ever in a state of perfect, perfect balance? Um, it’s, it’s a lofty point to get to, I think it’s possible to get there when we have no more need anymore. Right. But because we are creatures of need constantly looking to expand it’s how do we bring that need down to zero?

Yeah. And as soon as we bring that need. that need, I need to close a sale. I need to get this client. I need to buy these shoes. I need to, as soon as that need comes down to zero balance really starts becoming that much more of a reality. Mm-hmm , it’s it’s this need. I do wanna become a better person.

Mm-hmm what’s wrong with that? Um, you know, I, I, what I wanna be do more pushups. I, I wanna be able to, whatever it is for everybody else mm-hmm, um, I want to be able to run a mile in whatever. Um, so, so all of these, all of these things are, you know, staying in that flow, but then the, the key is, you know, [00:51:00] staying true, like back to that integrity point.

Yeah. I think the, the, the one thing that I’ve learned forever has been now that if I am just, just perfectly honest with my situation, mm-hmm, , uh, I will be fine. And if it’s not good enough, uh, then, and, and I don’t know if I, if I were told you about this, the largest deal that we ever did here was with a client who came in and I, every time I remember, uh, you know, the come in, they asked for pricing proposals.

Mm-hmm, that I think, have I ever said this before? I, it was, uh, it was the largest client we’ve ever seen. And I promised myself that I would not go in there with a position of need for this client. And, and so I really, um, I exaggerated myself just to make sure. So when they said, Hey, can you give us a floor plan?

And I was like, it’s on our, our website. [00:52:00] And they’re like, okay, do you have availability? Yes. Just very, yeah, I was, I was like, I looked at it like, if this didn’t happen, who cares? Mm-hmm right. So they said, okay, can you send us pricing as. No. And I said, let me try it. Right. Because I’ve tried the other ways and they haven’t worked so much right.

In these same situations. So this was the biggest I’d ever done. So I said, I’m gonna try something different. And, and I was like, if this doesn’t work, the other thing wasn’t gonna work anyway. So what have I lost? I totally looked at him and I said, and he said, so what, when do we get a proposal? And I said, well, first you have to come here and I gotta meet you guys.

And they’re like, well, it’s for a director of ours. Who’s got no time. And they need to know, I go, I need to meet ’em. Yeah. That was it. Because it’s in your environment. Well, I was like, I’m not gonna get this deal anyway. Yeah. So let’s just see what happens. The director [00:53:00] shows up with their team and they’re walking around.

And then I said, if they show up, I’ll serve ’em. So I said, Hey, you know, uh, what do you need, da, da, we’ll put this here, we’ll do this there. And then he looks at me and, and I re I didn’t realize it, but he had already made up his mind at that moment. and he says, okay, our office will be in touch with you.

And I said, okay, I didn’t know what that meant then mm-hmm but he goes back. I get a call from like, they’re from Boston. These guys, there’s a huge multinational company. And if I told you the name you’d know it, but they say, uh, the guy calls back and goes, okay, so now can we have a proposal because it’s down to you and one other company.

And I thought, okay, no, I’m not gonna give you a proposal still. And he’s like, so when will I get a proposal? I said, I’m not in business, but it’s not a normal. Its not. Yeah. It’s A’s it’s normal thing to [00:54:00] say, this is perfectly normal, perfectly normal today. Yeah. It’s perfectly normal to do. Okay. But this time I was giving it the big you like I don’t care.

I just wanted to know I’m one of those. I gotta try it to know it for myself, push the envelope. I really pushed the envelope. So I said to him, uh, When you tell me that we’re the only ones left. That’s when I’ll send you a proposal, it was a ridiculous ask. It was ridiculous.

Triena McGuirk: Yeah. Cause it’s part of their informed decision making

Muhammad Kermalli: everything.

Right. And like, they have to do this. They have to get three quotes. Yeah. I kid you not Trina. He instantly goes to, okay. You are the only one now that defies. Did you get the, did

Triena McGuirk: he take the proposal and then walk away and go to someone

Muhammad Kermalli: else? Or did he land on? So I, I said to him, no, but what my response to him after that was so from now on anything that you ask for, I’m probably a categorical.

Yes. Because I’m a reasonable person. [00:55:00] You’re a reasonable person. You have the other quote, right. If I’m being unreasonable, you can walk away, but I’ll match it. I’ll get you whatever you want. And it was the easiest negotiation I have ever been through because they did not ask for $1 off what I offered.

Hmm. And you would think the bigger they are, right. The harder they gonna bargain. And I gotta, I gotta say, even when their lawyers got involved to, to logo over the agreements, they were so careful. They were like, is it okay if we just added this language in here? Just to clarify, just clarify. And I was like, yeah, sure, no problem.

The lesson I learned from that was, there’s a saying, and this has a lot to do, I think with, with balance too, there’s a saying, it’s says, treat the world like you shadow. I

Triena McGuirk: love this there’s parts of the day where it’s bigger than you in those parts

Muhammad Kermalli: of the day where it’s the logic behind it is. If you chase your shadow, you’ll never catch it.

Mm-hmm turn your back on your [00:56:00] shadow. And watch what it does. It chases you. So it’s like, um, if we really, I feel like if we want something, I’m not saying use reverse psychology every single time and you know, but know your worth. That’s

Triena McGuirk: what I take from that conversation is know your worth. Right?

Muhammad Kermalli: If you were, if I was meant to have something, I now believe 100%, I will have it.

Yeah. And what I’m not meant to have no matter how hard I try for it. Have you ever felt like sometimes you are trying so hard for something and it’s just not, it’s just not working out mm-hmm but we have to have it mm-hmm so it’s that letting go? That, um, that detachment from it all mm-hmm and a lot

Triena McGuirk: of people too, I find when they’re starting off in business is they will undervalue their worth just to get the business.

So they’re yeah, they’re just, they’re really not even covering all of their costs all the time.

Muhammad Kermalli: I’ve done it. I’ve done it so many times.

Triena McGuirk: Just to get that wheel, uh, that wheelhouse going and that referral source scoring. But then [00:57:00] that becomes a habit almost of just not valuing yourself.

Think the beginning of the conversation you were saying, you’re, you’re feeling like you’re falling outta balance now.

Yeah. So how is that being shown to you? Like, how is that? How are you, how are you aware? Cuz the bus hasn’t lost the wheels yet, but yeah.

Muhammad Kermalli: Um, The signs are, you know, you remember we talked about it earlier that we Trina, in another conversation, we said, don’t wait until the universe is screaming. Yeah. So the fact of the matter is, is that it’s not different now than it was before.

Mm-hmm, , it’s the same. It’s just the signs come sooner, right? The signs or you see them sooner, you see them sooner. Yeah. And not if you see them sooner, you respect. I, I find, I find like now my level of respect back to the signs are like, thank you universe. Or thank you God for showing me this. Okay. Right.

So, um, usually I find,[00:58:00]

um, some would interpret this as stress, maybe mm-hmm um, I watch my stress level. I watch my stress level very carefully. So what’s stress look like for you? Um, I.

Every day, right? Uh it’s like, I, I judge the success of a day. Mm-hmm by how much fun I’m having in my day mm-hmm . And when I feel like I’m in flow, I’m having a lot of fun and things are just moving along. It’s it’s such an easy way to measure. Yeah. So if I’m not having fun right away, I’m like, something’s off, I’m not enjoying this.

So then immediately, as soon as I’m not enjoying something, I’m like, then why am I doing this? Cause I, if it’s good for me, I’m, I’m having a good time with it. Mm-hmm and [00:59:00] that doesn’t mean by the way, it’s not difficult. That’s a complete, those are two different things. That’s two different things. Yeah. So I watch for, am I enjoying it so

Triena McGuirk: it can be difficult.

It didn’t have a

Muhammad Kermalli: lot of joy in it. So that’s one thing that I watch for. I find that my stress level increases also when I’m doing things for the like, reasons, like, why am I doing this? Who am I doing this with? Like, what are their goals? So alignment between myself and the people that I’m working with and, and, and why they’re doing it and why I’m doing it.

And if that alignment is not there, um, there’s stress. Mm-hmm, , there’s a certain kind of stress. It it’s different where, um, somebody forgot something it’s different when somebody just made a mistake, you know? But this is a core

Triena McGuirk: alignment. Yeah. Like principle, like the integrity coming back to the integrity of the principles of how you would function.

Muhammad Kermalli: So let’s just say, I’m, [01:00:00] I’m working with somebody and I’m finding it very hard to get ahold of them. And this is just the beginning of the relationship I’m thinking of myself. It’s well, if it’s, if this is this hard now, Yeah, what’s it gonna be like later? Uh, if I’m working with, uh, a call a colleague, a coworker, and I’m thinking, I I’ve had to say this like four times now, uh, and this is just like the easy stuff.

So I’m, I’m brutal about like, yeah. So it’s

Triena McGuirk: about recognizing things fast that are, because those things can like go on for months or yeah, we let it go. Yeah. We make excuses for rain and drain and drain. I’ve noticed that with myself too, I’m getting faster at, I just go right for the jugular. I call it cutting connections with things, but sometimes cutting a connection can be something to my detriment, but sometimes it’s to my benefit, if it it’s something that isn’t aligning or it’s stressing me out, right.

I’m just

Muhammad Kermalli: start recognizing it. One thing I learned from that book. [01:01:00] Uh, of, of, um, essentialism is, it says like you take care of all the big pieces first mm-hmm right. So what are my big pieces? And then I, and there’s zero compromise on the big pieces. So there is my, my health and wellness, my family, my like, whatever my, these are my non-negotiables.

No non-negotiables. And so stress starts taking place when I feel like I’m negotiating on the non-negotiables. Yeah. And as soon as I feel like I’m negotiating on a non-negotiable I’m like stop. Yeah, you’ve done this a hundred times. You’ve fallen off of this because of these reasons don’t do it anymore.

No matter what amount of money’s being thrown at you, no matter what the upside are, uh, these are non-negotiables, it’s usually money, isn’t it? It’s usually, um, it’s usually money, you know, there’s a, that’s often the case mm-hmm um, There’s also things like fame. Mm-hmm , there’s also things like, um, it’s [01:02:00] egotistical, there’s a lot of ego, but it’s like really surface level things, very surface level things.

The surface. Yeah. And not only that, they almost like target my non-negotiable on their first opportunity. And when they target the non-negotiable, I’m like how, how you were so quick to go to something that is so valuable to me. Mm-hmm um, you couldn’t possibly, this couldn’t possibly be right for me. So I’ve got my non-negotiables down and uh, and then I even said, somebody said, well, are aren’t you afraid?

Aren’t you worried. That then, you know, you know what happens to people who say no to making money, right? Like you could run the risk of not making money, being outta money. And, and, and this is where I came to terms with it. I said, even if it means that I will starve, I believe that in that moment of starvation, I’ll probably learn what I’m supposed to learn about something else.

That’s greater mm-hmm so if that’s what I gotta do, I’m willing now to starve and [01:03:00] I’m not afraid of the death. Part of it, the, oh my God. The fear of missing out on something, whether it’s money or life mm-hmm , I’m like, that’s a, the pie in the sky or whatever you wanna call it. Like, that was never real.

You were never gonna get it. Um, it’s just, this it’s like an Oasis that’s just being presented to draw you away. MK. From your non-negotiables mm-hmm don’t fall for it. I’ve fallen at Fort before. And I realized even what I was chasing was not real. It was a shadow. Yeah. Right. So. I’ve done it so many times now that I’m like, you know what?

You just don’t that looks familiar anymore. I saw

Triena McGuirk: something the other day, my son showed it to me. It was funny. Um, okay. So, you know, the, what is it? I don’t know what you call it. It’s an acronym, but it’s something else like, Yolo, like you only live one. Yep. And so he said, oh, you’ll like this one. And it was, um, what was it?

Yobo joy only being by my alone joy on being alone or something [01:04:00] like that. He’s like, this is like you,

Muhammad Kermalli: and I’m like,

Triena McGuirk: it totally is me the joy of being alone. Right. And that just that reflective time. Yeah. You’re no longer for, to miss out. You’re like, what’s gonna come from the self-reflection yeah. Time.

Yeah. Just

Muhammad Kermalli: Thank you always great to have the conversation. Yeah.

Triena McGuirk: Never a shortage.